What is "The Trance of Sorrow"?
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@seekinghga said
"93,
Is this supposed to be related to the feeling of loss that one feels when the things that were once valuable to him must lose their worth? Such as when making hallow the consciousness? I have read the essay on sorrow by Crowley. I am looking for contemporary points of view."93,
It relates to recognizing the First Noble Truth as well as the fact that all things material will fade. The equivalent practical response to this is in Matthew 6:19-21, "Stop storing up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But keep on storing up treasures for yourselves in heaven, where moths and rust do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal because where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Crowley puts it in the terms of becoming a Spiritual Being. In short, it is the experiential perception of the futility of looking for wholeness/stability/longevity in material things which leads one to the 'spiritual quest' which 'terminates' in Crossing the Abyss, annihilating all one is, was, and has. Only then can one master Sorrow, having become That which contains both sides of the coin in Itself.
If its a joke, its a bad one... then again every joke is at the expense of someone (the General makes the joke of Existence at the expense of the Particular in Book of Lies).
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IAO131 -
@Aum418 said
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93,Crowley puts it in the terms of becoming a Spiritual Being. In short, it is the experiential perception of the futility of looking for wholeness/stability/longevity in material things which leads one to the 'spiritual quest' which 'terminates' in Crossing the Abyss, annihilating all one is, was, and has. Only then can one master Sorrow, having become That which contains both sides of the coin in Itself.
If its a joke, its a bad one... then again every joke is at the expense of someone
93 93/93
IAO131"93,
Your words are very inspiring IAO131. I thank you for them. Attachment is the forerunner of Sorrow. That's how things go.
93 93/93
PLL -
@Frater LR said
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Whoever wrote that movie was ...insightful."
The Watchmen was originally a graphic novel by a magus named Alan Moore.
There's a great documentary about him called 'The Mindscape of Alan Moore' -
@Jim Eshelman said
"Sure. Why do you think the Buddha is laughing?"
Book of Lies chapter 14:
Kappa-Epsilon-Phi-Alpha-Lambda-Eta Iota-Delta
ONION-PEELINGSThe Universe is the Practical Joke of the General at the Expense of the Particular, quoth FRATER PERDURABO, and laughed.
But those disciples nearest to him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow.
Those next to them laughed, seeing the Universal Joke.
Below these certain disciples wept.
Then certain laughed.
Others next wept.
Others next laughed.
Next others wept.
Next others laughed.
Last came those that wept because they could not see the Joke, and those that laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke, and thought it safe to act like FRATER PERDURABO.
But though FRATER PERDURABO laughed openly, He also at the same time wept secretly; and in Himself He neither laughed nor wept.
Nor did He mean what He said. -
"You look at other people who are running to gather money, or buying things for their children's future, or seeking to become the next big rock band, or are planning "the rest of their lives" with a spouse, or are buying the best car, or are worshiping the biggest god, and yet they don't realize the futility of it."
That's your judgement, futility. You are projecting your values on to others. To "them" it may not be futile. Their way of thinking may give it meaning. What do you value? Learning, perhaps?
Be careful with these thoughts, you must confront it with its opposite. Indeed, from a certain perspective, is not all the universe just the play of consciousness? Whether it manifests itself in the "play" of atoms or elements in space, or the of the play of puppies, children, or man-children? What you ultimately strive for is beyond this dualistic notion.
Remember to seek psychic balance and harmony. If you get too melancholic, it will hinder your progress and dampen your inner light.
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To lock yourself away from the world, that is to say that "the world is transient and so there is no point in accepting or participating," (a form of what Crowley says, "willed dissociation") these are thoughts of the Black Brothers. As is the idea of saying that "they are fools for they cherish Maya and they are not worthy of me or my thought. I am a high-minded yogi or magician. I am 'here' and they are 'there'. They do not, can not, hold a candle to me." That is all pride-filled rubbish; the apotheosis of the transient Ego-consciousness. One must assimilate ALL of it--the "good" and the "bad," the internal and the external, the subjective and objective. Otherwise the Ego can not be held in check, it will be free to expand in its own world without an external "reality" with which to gauge and confine its growth.
"(The state of mind which is characterised by Indifference is commonly called Trance, but the misnomer is unfortunate. It is, in fact, in a sense the precise contrary of a Trance; for Trance usually implies Samadhi, and this state specifically excludes any such occurrence.) That implies a uniting, and this a willed dissociation. Yet there is nothing here to suggest necessarily any practice of the Black Brothers; for it is not, properly speaking, an Attainment, but rather a convenient attitude."
- LETT, Indifference
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Death is not an end.
In the Hogakure a reference is made to the will of a samurai after his head has been cut off. He should still be able to perform One action after decapitation. Slaying the enemy with one cut for instance. Such should be his Will.
Sick people will sacrifice themselves and/or commit to suprahuman endeavours especially if they have a timeline. Or confront a disease or injury with Will to live.
Trance of Sorrow may come to ordinary people As a Banner of the Chariot. Something glimpsed before its time to Act, like waking up from A nightmare to save your family from the burning house.
Of course, I could be wrong. -
@nderabloodredsky said
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"You look at other people who are running to gather money, or buying things for their children's future, or seeking to become the next big rock band, or are planning "the rest of their lives" with a spouse, or are buying the best car, or are worshiping the biggest god, and yet they don't realize the futility of it."That's your judgement, futility. You are projecting your values on to others. To "them" it may not be futile. Their way of thinking may give it meaning. What do you value? Learning, perhaps? "
No - I mean 'futile' in the sense of 'grasping at impermanent things as if they were permanent'... in the sense that attachment to material things inevitably brings suffering
"Be careful with these thoughts, you must confront it with its opposite. Indeed, from a certain perspective, is not all the universe just the play of consciousness? Whether it manifests itself in the "play" of atoms or elements in space, or the of the play of puppies, children, or man-children? What you ultimately strive for is beyond this dualistic notion."
How is striving beyond dualism?
"Remember to seek psychic balance and harmony. If you get too melancholic, it will hinder your progress and dampen your inner light."
No ones melancholic - its the old 'Im a realist, not a pessimist!'
93 93/93
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@seekinghga said
"To lock yourself away from the world, that is to say that "the world is transient and so there is no point in accepting or participating," (a form of what Crowley says, "willed dissociation") these are thoughts of the Black Brothers. As is the idea of saying that "they are fools for they cherish Maya and they are not worthy of me or my thought. I am a high-minded yogi or magician. I am 'here' and they are 'there'. They do not, can not, hold a candle to me." That is all pride-filled rubbish; the apotheosis of the transient Ego-consciousness. One must assimilate ALL of it--the "good" and the "bad," the internal and the external, the subjective and objective. Otherwise the Ego can not be held in check, it will be free to expand in its own world without an external "reality" with which to gauge and confine its growth.
"(The state of mind which is characterised by Indifference is commonly called Trance, but the misnomer is unfortunate. It is, in fact, in a sense the precise contrary of a Trance; for Trance usually implies Samadhi, and this state specifically excludes any such occurrence.) That implies a uniting, and this a willed dissociation. Yet there is nothing here to suggest necessarily any practice of the Black Brothers; for it is not, properly speaking, an Attainment, but rather a convenient attitude."
- LETT, Indifference"
Nice.
93 93/93
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@Jim Eshelman said
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Of course, one then remembers (at once or eventually) the key of humor: "It ain't funny if it ain't real - and it ain't real if it ain't funny.""Jim, where is that quote from, if I may be so serious as to ask?
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Astrologer Jayj Jacobs in the 1970s. Consistent with Jayj's wishes, I've totally stolen it ever sense
(Because it's true! Funny, eh?)
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Astrologer Jayj Jacobs in the 1970s. Consistent with Jayj's wishes, I've totally stolen it ever sense
(Because it's true! Funny, eh?)"
: )
Love is the law, love under will.
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It is that feeling you get upon first waking,
Staring up at the ceiling,
Laying in bed... wondering
"What is this all for?"
Until you awake,
To the memory of that Golden Dawn
And get your Self out of bed -
"If it's not funny, then it isn't true." Dr. Timothy Leary, 1965. Good thread.
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@seekinghga said
"Is this supposed to be related to the feeling of loss that one feels when the things that were once valuable to him must lose their worth? Such as when making hallow the consciousness? I have read the essay on sorrow by Crowley. I am looking for contemporary points of view."
Continuing my thread-bouncing response to you...
This was actually a really good question, and a really good style. You started by stating where you were coming from, what thoughts you had, giving an inference of where the question was coming from so that people could actually engage meaingfully rather than taking a buckshot approach.
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I don't know if I have truly experienced it yet, but I have a bit to say on a feeling which I could characterize with this name.
Ever since I seriously picked up the Great Work, I have more and more often been overcome by a strong feeling of longing (towards my HGA, or the Supernals - I am not able to tell yet), which makes everything else besides the Work irrelevant for me.
It does feel like sorrow, and I in deep regret that I didn't start the Work sooner. I think that's what it is for me, and it's a great motivator to work as hard as I can. -
@Surg said
"I don't know if I have truly experienced it yet, but I have a bit to say on a feeling which I could characterize with this name.
Ever since I seriously picked up the Great Work, I have more and more often been overcome by a strong feeling of longing (towards my HGA, or the Supernals - I am not able to tell yet), which makes everything else besides the Work irrelevant for me.
It does feel like sorrow, and I in deep regret that I didn't start the Work sooner. I think that's what it is for me, and it's a great motivator to work as hard as I can."Same happened to me.
On another note, how does one meditate in the First Noble Truth to enter in the Trance of Sorrow? I can't recall which Liber is exactly, but in one of them they suggest you to imagine yourself dead. I took the suggestion and modified it slightly, so in my meditations my dear loved ones died, I died in front of them, separations from different kinds of pleasures, etc. My question is if this is a right approach. I think it's more a contemplation than meditation, but it's made me aware of lot of things.
I always banish before and after, of course.
So, did I do good? -
Liber HHH section AAA.
I haven't done it personally but I think your emendations probably changed the nature of the practice. I get the sense Liber HHH is actually about experiencing the death of your physical body rather than the emotions associated with death generally.
However, your emendations do seem like a good path towards experiencing the Trance of Sorrow.
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I believe this are false impulses of ones will, how you imagine yourself and your place. That is why it is called TRUE will.
Mine recents are that other people are only strong as much as you are weak., this would be more of mental type. And one of emotional type would be, that women needs money and security only when love can happen, or even that people like go to swim only with half of their body in the water
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My personal take is that it is the realization that everything is destined to turn into ShT and that this is the entire process of the Universe.