How can I prove it to myself?
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Hello all,
my first post here. I began to read Crowley less than a year ago. I particularly took to "Eight lectures on Yoga" and Liber IV Part 1. These are great tools for me that have really improved my life and opened up new worlds.I have been trying to learn about Magick, but I just don't get it. It seems to cross that line from self-discovery to lunacy. I have tried to find value in it as a sort of "moving meditation", which I think is a great idea similar to Tantra, but the paradigm in the instruction seems to hold tightly to the objective power of the god names or the symbols, and I completely fail to see how one ritual can be more "dangerous" than another beyond the effect that it can have on the psyche.
There are only one or two places where Crowley says that it is not to be taken literally, and I'm beginning to think now that his obscure, ambiguous way of writing is a way of trying to please all.
I read stories of Parsons or Crowley claiming that they have actually "summoned" entities, that have appeared before them, talked to them, or cause change on the material plane. It sends my bullshit alarm a-ringing, yet, having learned so much from the man, I cannot disregard it completely.
I have only recently discovered the falseness of the deterministic scientific model, which, while useful for science, is no good for philosophy, and I am in the process of disassembling my views on how the world works.
How could I prove or disprove to myself once and for all whether these things are actually possible?
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"I have only recently discovered the falseness of the deterministic scientific model, which, while useful for science, is no good for philosophy, and I am in the process of disassembling my views on how the world works."
You are well on the way to 'knowing' the essence of the magickal universe. Whether intentional or not, we are all hoodwinked by the 'science cartel'. Not the least of which is the stubborn view that the scientist is removed from his experiment, somehow above and seperate from the rest of the universe, observing results of some event which has no connection or relation to the observer.
The other illusion perpetuated is that matter is static. All matter comes from the Sun, which is a reflection of Spirit, and is constantly emerging. It is an emergent universe, where cause and effect happen to work because we believe it does. Think of matter constantly blowing into existence like a steam or wind which coagulates into a gross/dense vibration of light reflected on the quantum mirror by force of Will. Whether they created the quantum fishbowl as a vacuum which draws in the light or if it is being blown in by pressure or both I'm not sure.
This is one of the secrets of Genesis. Creation didn't happen some time ago...its happening right 'now' at every 'moment' based on reflected thoughtforms that come from a collective un/consiousness. Once you get past this, you will also realize that 'time' is a manmade concept, it does not exist in nature as such. It is as much an illusion as determinism. Again whether intentional or not, our animal is slave to the mechanical clock on this planet during the manifestation of the Aeonic currents we are subject to.
The introduction to Magick in Theory and Practice is a good model of the Magickal universe. And there are definitely intelligences and lifeforms beyond the barrier/vortex which we can access, even echoes and vibrations in this dimension. It sounds like BS at first, but Master Therion laid down the work and excercises, and they are quite effective. The best way to prove it to yourself is to do the Work, read the Libers and follow the A.A. system. You already know by reading how He lights up circuits in your brain...thats just the beginning. Do the Work, the proof will come. Not overnight or even a month or year maybe...but if it is your will, you will do the Work, and the proof will come.
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@ldmaneinstein said
"Hello all,
my first post here. I began to read Crowley less than a year ago. I particularly took to "Eight lectures on Yoga" and Liber IV Part 1. These are great tools for me that have really improved my life and opened up new worlds.I have been trying to learn about Magick, but I just don't get it. It seems to cross that line from self-discovery to lunacy. I have tried to find value in it as a sort of "moving meditation", which I think is a great idea similar to Tantra, but the paradigm in the instruction seems to hold tightly to the objective power of the god names or the symbols, and I completely fail to see how one ritual can be more "dangerous" than another beyond the effect that it can have on the psyche.
There are only one or two places where Crowley says that it is not to be taken literally, and I'm beginning to think now that his obscure, ambiguous way of writing is a way of trying to please all.
I read stories of Parsons or Crowley claiming that they have actually "summoned" entities, that have appeared before them, talked to them, or cause change on the material plane. It sends my bullshit alarm a-ringing, yet, having learned so much from the man, I cannot disregard it completely.
I have only recently discovered the falseness of the deterministic scientific model, which, while useful for science, is no good for philosophy, and I am in the process of disassembling my views on how the world works.
How could I prove or disprove to myself once and for all whether these things are actually possible?"
You can look at it from a scientific viewpoint like this:-
The body's proprioceptive system (one's inner sense of one's body) can sort of detach itself from its usual moorings in our mental construction of the world around us, and seem to itself to float around in a more dream-like construct-of-a-world. (Check out the writings of the scientist Susan Blakemore on OOBEs.)
When you get into this kind of state, it can very well seem to you like you are meeting and talking to real entities. It's no biggie really. It's kind of like lucid dreaming, but you can do it when you're awake, and induce it at will, with the right training.
If you approach it like this, you don't need to worry about the further notion that this state is sort of like window to another realm, such that those entities are in some sense real and independent, and only communicating using the "clothing" of one's imagination, as if one's imagination in this condition were a sort of "radio". That would be the full-blown Magickal Hypothesis, but it's not necessary to believe that to get these kinds of experiences (I don't think - I am particularly dense to all that astral stuff, I tried it but never got anything out of it, I'm more of a mystic).
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"I have only recently discovered the falseness of the deterministic scientific model, which, while useful for science, is no good for philosophy, and I am in the process of disassembling my views on how the world works. "
Now, take the ability that gurugeorge describes, and add a level of "phenomenologically communicated ontology" that unfolds as new experiences make their demands of understanding, and you'll have pretty much the only game around worth playing - if not the final answer all in one operation.
Shalom
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@gurugeorge said
"When you get into this kind of state, it can very well seem to you like you are meeting and talking to real entities. It's no biggie really. It's kind of like lucid dreaming, but you can do it when you're awake, and induce it at will, with the right training.
If you approach it like this, you don't need to worry about the further notion that this state is sort of like window to another realm, such that those entities are in some sense real and independent, and only communicating using the "clothing" of one's imagination, as if one's imagination in this condition were a sort of "radio". That would be the full-blown magical Hypothesis, but it's not necessary to believe that to get these kinds of experiences (I don't think - I am particularly dense to all that astral stuff, I tried it but never got anything out of it, I'm more of a mystic)."
This theory works, of course until you experience the things that push its limits; like an 'entity' communicating information that you could not have known by prior means, or 'shared' spiritual experiences.
