Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram - invoking vs banishing
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If you’re doing a planetary invoking, do you banish the planetary influence at the end of the invocation after the license to depart or do you finish off with the LBRP once more?
I usually start with LBRP and move into an invoking but rarely finish with another banishing. My reasoning - I have invoked an influence into my universe so I want to see how it plays out over the subsequent days. It doesn’t make sense to me to invoke something and immediately banish it. Only once or twice I have banished an invoked influence when the manifesting current became too extreme in the days that followed.
Crowley, for example, invoked Jupiter 17 times during the Paris Working – suggesting one needs to be far more daring and extreme to observe any difference. This comment, along with Crowley’s practise of using a Boulemeter, a thumbscrew he used to withstand extreme pain, suggests physics lies behind the science of magick, namely you need to invoke sufficient energy to cause a corresponding change.
One thing I have discovered is that doing larger than life visualizations (towering in the sky over the city) during rituals tends to manifest the influence more visibly. The blowback happens when the lynching mob appears out of nowhere looking to crucify the fool...
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@he atlas itch said
"If you’re doing a planetary invoking, do you banish the planetary influence at the end of the invocation after the license to depart or do you finish off with the LBRP once more?"
The primary thing is to banish them after the L2D.
"I usually start with LBRP and move into an invoking but rarely finish with another banishing. My reasoning - I have invoked an influence into my universe so I want to see how it plays out over the subsequent days."
The circumstances may warrant different workings. However, it isn't usually advised to keep the energies live in that particular way, because unintended shadow consequences are likely unless you are able to maintain constant, conscious vigilance. Instead, for a work that is to have a specific consequence in the future, the usual method is to concretize the energies into some form, and then banish them from the working place. For example, for a work in the physical world, embody them in a talisman, which is wrapped in silk before the banishing. For a working in yourself, see that the seeds are planted deeply in subconsciousness, or even embody them in a eucharist that you consume, before banishing.
"It doesn’t make sense to me to invoke something and immediately banish it. Only once or twice I have banished an invoked influence when the manifesting current became too extreme in the days that followed.[/qjuote]
The only neutral thing I can say is that you are ignoring basic protocols of magical hygiene. Obviously, the choice is yours."Crowley, for example, invoked Jupiter 17 times during the Paris Working – suggesting one needs to be far more daring and extreme to observe any difference."
"But in those cases, he absorbed the entire force into a eucharist and consumed it. That was the whole point of those particular workings IIRC.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The only neutral thing I can say is that you are ignoring basic protocols of magical hygiene. Obviously, the choice is yours."
Can you elaborate on the protocols of magical hygiene? Do you mean my method is un-Thelemic because it might affect others I come into contact with? Or is the banishing less effective if I wait for a week? If I regularly do the LBRP followed by invoking of the Lesser Hexagram Ritual as a general meditation exercise, do you recommend banishing the LHR after its invocation?
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Ed posted something in another thread that I feel is most applicable to your question about magical hygiene.
As Ed stated, the first rule of magic is: yes, this is all in your mind.
If you do not "put down that which you call up" you are creating psychological archtypes that you may not wish to have idly interacting with your subconscious mind as your sitting at work or otherwise going about your day. A banishing puts such subtle influences to rest.
It bears mentioning that the choice to do so is a function of the work being performed, but I believe that Jim was just attempting to call awareness to the fact that it is not to be overlooked.
If you want to walk around with such things influencing your actions, more power to you, just be aware of what it is you are (or are not) doing.
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@he atlas itch said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The only neutral thing I can say is that you are ignoring basic protocols of magical hygiene. Obviously, the choice is yours."Can you elaborate on the protocols of magical hygiene?"
That's a big topic!
"Do you mean my method is un-Thelemic because it might affect others I come into contact with? Or is the banishing less effective if I wait for a week?"
I didn't say un-Thelemic. I was referring to ceremonial magick per se, not a particular flavor.
The fact that you're asking this question suggests that a short answer probably won't satisfy you. - You seem to be missing basic rudiments of magical training. But, giving it a shot: I'm wondering if you understand the specific purpose of the so-called invoking and banishing rituals? To invoke a particular planet, element, etc. is to tune your mind to the same frequency as that principle, giving a direct pipe-line to a particular kind of consciousness. (The radio-dial analogy works perfectly with this.) Most commonly and (in most cases) ideally, we do this in a hygienic ("antiseptic") context, in which we have first banished to reach a 'zero' state, and then invoke a single thing into it. We work with that principle unpolluted by outside details, complete the work intended, and then de-tune from that one frequency.
Now, if you kept a more or less perfect control on your thoughts all of your waking time, there wouldn't be a problem walking around in the world with your brain tuned into a particular frequency. But most people (even most adepts) don't have that kind of perfect control and lack of interruption or distraction. Furthermore, it's totally unnecessary to maintain the connection - you've completed the work in the context of the ritual.
"If I regularly do the LBRP followed by invoking of the Lesser Hexagram Ritual as a general meditation exercise, do you recommend banishing the LHR after its invocation?"
That's a different conversation. I'm talking here about the invocation of a specific, isolated force. The generic Lesser Ritual, in contrast, is undifferentiated and therefore inherently balanced.
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Thanks for comments.
@Jim Eshelman said
"You seem to be missing basic rudiments of magical training"
I belong to the Sink Or Swim Order. They took my dues and embraced me as a brother, but when the ordeals started, they stopped answering emails. (I would like to take this moment and thank JAE and ToT for being the only online forum that has been able to give concrete feedback to real problems and questions relating to the legacy of Aleister Crowley).
I like the radio frequency analogy. Part of my problem is the fact I have no interest in working with demonic entities, but am more interested in working with the 4 elements, 7 planets, stars. So the idea of calling up some principle, requesting a wish, and sending it away, still feels odd for me. I see myself more as a channel for invoked energies. My emphasis has been more on finding the right ingredients for a discernible manifestation of energy – placing emphasis on pronounciation and vibration of divine names, emotional investment, visualization and alignment with True Will.
I did notice one interesting thing in your comment that might explain why I operate the way I do. Its a fact that I shut off my inner dialogue nearly 20 years ago and its, more or less, stayed that way ever since. I don't regard this as a particular virtue on my part - just something that happened due to various circumstances and my history. But it makes me very aware of impressions and thoughts and events that enter my consciousness - e.g. following an invoking.
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@FraterIgnatius said
"A banishing puts such subtle influences to rest."
Likewise, I've always used a banishing to calm disturbance and clear my environment. It is, quite literally, a sort of spiritual sterilization.
Any other use is perfunctory and better accomplished using other means.
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@gmugmble said
"I recently ran across the advice to begin a meditation session with a version of the Lesser Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram and end with the Banishing. (The difference being the invoking vs the banishing Earth pentagram.) This is similar to opening and closing the circle, which is often part of Wiccan and similar group rituals. I also believe the G.'.D.'. recommended beginning the day with the Invoking ritual and ending it with the Banishing.
But Crowley, AFAIK, recommended using the banishing ritual both at the beginning and ending of meditation or other working. I don't recall his ever mentioning the invoking ritual.
What is the T.'.O.'.T.'. opinion? Should one use the invoking or banishing ritual prior to meditation?
(I apologize if this question has been address in these fora before. I did a search, but there is an awful lot to go through.)"
I have the same question, I don't feel like the discussion answered the question. At least for me, I want to know with regard to the LBRP by itself, not with any other invocations as the discussion turned to. I too have some experience with a Wiccan/Neo-Pagan version where the invoking LBRP is used at the beginning of a ceremony (the general version of the pentagram, to answer Jim's question), then the banishing version at the close of the ceremony. (Some people visualise the Archangels as turning in and watching over you in the invoking, and turning away and guarding you in the banishing). As far as the A.'.A.'. and Crowley, is the LBRP ever used drawing the invoking general pentagram?
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@nderabloodredsky said
"As far as the A.'.A.'. and Crowley, is the LBRP ever used drawing the invoking general pentagram?"
Yes. - The instructions / expectations were substantially those of the Golden Dawn at the time Crowley and Jones were members.
For a description of the what is aimed at, see Liber O, Cap. IV, the paragraph numbered 3.
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This topic has come up to mind several times for me, and I have resolved to address it by trying various combinations and rituals and document the results. Liber O and other instructions are almost like 'toolkits' - they don't specify to what end or sequence (although some is implied in Liber O around BRH). The approach has been to construct ceremonies with various rituals 'plugged in'. Such as LBRP, BRH, Middle Pillar, assume Hoor-paar-kraat, GRP Invoking Earth, LBRP, BRH as an example sequence. Next time I may change the ordering for example. Recording the results and tuning ceremonies and rituals seems to work for me, as I have identified some that do nothing (i.e. am I pissing in the wind to invoke only to banish again, etc...but is not always the case, when meditating while the force is invoked, before final banishing), while other 'ritualettes' plugged in from Liber O at certain times are very powerful. Its alot of work to try all these combinations, but I think its worth it to find good ones.
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ok so if you do the invoking instead with the general earth pentagram, what do you visualize and what not invoking? b/c i know with the banishing you empower it and blow it up in flames. so would it be like seeing the energy flow into yourself? the area? kinda like the wiccan calling the quarters?
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@Alias55A said
"ok so if you do the invoking instead with the general earth pentagram, what do you visualize and what not invoking?"
There need be no visualizations different from the banishing (except that you're drawing the pentagrams differently).
One way of describing it: You're raising the overall spiritual tone of yourself and the place of working.
"b/c i know with the banishing you empower it and blow it up in flames."
I don't do that, nor teach that. The pentagrams themselves, by their existence, are perfectly capable of handling what's needed; and, by all means, you don't destroy the pentagrams themselves! Their presence is a significant part of their efficacy.
In both the (generic) banishing and invoking rituals, draw the pentagrams in blue-white flame. When you charge them there will tend to be a perceptible difference, but I leave this for you to discover.
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Ch. IV, Paragraph 3 of Liber O refers to a feeling of cleanliness associated with banishing, and one of holiness with invoking. That makes sense.
I asked a related question in another post about when to insert the visualisation of the destruction of those things that disturb the magician (see my other recent post.) Any comments on when to insert that?
What is interesting to me, is that everyone seems to say, "start with the LBRP," yet that is step IV. There are three other steps preceding that state "fair mastery" should be attained before entering these practices.
In any case, I still am not clear on what the consensus is regarding these questions:
(Note: all questions refer to the LRP as a practice by itself, not necessarily precedent to other rituals such as the MP or Hexagram Rituals etc.).
1.) When to use the Invoking (general) Pentagram.
2.) What to visualise when drawing the invoking Pentagram.
3.) When to use the general Pentagram vs. associating each Pentagram with the appropriate element.
4.) When to insert the Step 2. of the LBRP mentioned in Regardie's, "The Golden Dawn."Also, this topic reflects on a deeper issue, those of the Student non-grade of the A.'.A.'. I suspect in Crowley's day, one was a student for a very short time and basically jumped right in to the training. However, today, that period can last some months or even years. If you read books like Don Milo Duquette's, "The Magick of Aleister Crowley," you get all sorts of rituals that an aspirant can and should practice. Not all of them right off the bat perhaps, but the LBRP, Liber Resh at least. There is both a spiritual thirst and a spiritual and psychic need of protection among modern day Thelemites, a need for something that fills the gap between someone who has left the protection of their old religion and gods, and some one who has attained "fair mastery" in Asana, Pranayama, Dharana, commited to memory the tables of "777", mastery of Assumption of the God forms (pre-requisite to that in-depth study of the Egyptian Pantheon), Vibration of the Divine Names, and then finally Banishing and Invoking Rituals. As far as I can tell, there is a huge gap where the Student is left hanging in the wind. In my experience, the only thing that comes close to filling that gap is Wicca and Neo-Paganism, unless one sticks with a more conventional religion.
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@nderabloodredsky said
"1.) When to use the Invoking (general) Pentagram."
I don't think you can answer that in the abstract, i.e., outside of a lot more information about circumstance. But perhaps I can give some examples. (These are only examples.)
As a precedent to other work, after after banishing, one can use the Lesser Invoking Pentagram Ritual just to 'charge' yourself or the space, i.e., to sanctify for other work.
If a space is reserved only for magical work, or used primarily for that and not seriously disturbed in between, then (especially with a somewhat more advanced magician) it isn't necessary to banish each time - just to prepare the space once, and occasionally reinforce it, and thereafter only do the invoking to start a work session and the banishing to close it.
One particular example of this is the Vault of the Adepts. The Vault is of such high sanctity inherently that no banishing is ever performed in it. Only invocations are ever performed in the Vault. (Ever.) As a variation of that, during the season of my performance of the Abramelin working, I consecrated my temple by the ritual the consecrates the Vault, and thereafter did nothing but invocations in it until the day I took it down.
An expression I've often made of the comparative purposes of the so-called banishing and so-called invoking rituals may be helpful. It's partly literal, partly inferential. It is that the invoking moves one up the Tree (into more spiritual spaces), and the banishing moves one down the Tree (grounds one in Malkuth). Thus, the invoking would be used to begin spiritual work and the banishing to end it. (But this presumes a sufficiently "clean" psychic environment to begin with.) My first exposure to this was during a time that I was learning the rituals and followed a common recommendation of doing the invoking in the morning and the banishing at night. However, I'd do the invoking and then go hop on a city bus and be wide-open raw to psychic assault, as if every protection had been stripped away. Obviously, this wasn't entirely true, because the Pentagram Ritual is inherently protective; but it felt true. I eventually sorted out that it was openiong me wide-open to all impressions in a way that only had its place in a psychically purified space, such as a temple.
"2.) What to visualise when drawing the invoking Pentagram."
I've answered this, and you know most of it, so I might be missing the point here. One sees the pentagram being drawn in blue-white flame. (The color is extremely important - it's the color of the particular neutral astral light of the generic ritual.) One actually sees the pentagram form as one's finger or implement moves through the air tracing it.
Remember that you are drawing these at an infinite distance. They may appear a short distance in front of you, but they are being drawn at all distances between you and infinity. For this reason, the arm, wrist, and hand, need to be kept completely straight - not bent - from the shoulder to the very end. When one draws the pentagram (or other lineal figure) with a perfectly straight arm etc., the mathematics are such that the figure remains as well drawn to an infinite distance.
"3.) When to use the general Pentagram vs. associating each Pentagram with the appropriate element."
You use the pentagrams of a particular Element when you are working with that particular Element.
"If you read books like Don Milo Duquette's, "The Magick of Aleister Crowley," you get all sorts of rituals that an aspirant can and should practice. Not all of them right off the bat perhaps, but the LBRP, Liber Resh at least. There is both a spiritual thirst and a spiritual and psychic need of protection among modern day Thelemites, a need for something that fills the gap between someone who has left the protection of their old religion and gods, and some one who has attained "fair mastery" in Asana, Pranayama, Dharana, commited to memory the tables of "777", mastery of Assumption of the God forms (pre-requisite to that in-depth study of the Egyptian Pantheon), Vibration of the Divine Names, and then finally Banishing and Invoking Rituals. As far as I can tell, there is a huge gap where the Student is left hanging in the wind. In my experience, the only thing that comes close to filling that gap is Wicca and Neo-Paganism, unless one sticks with a more conventional religion."
Whoa, you're putting all sorts of things in the Student period that are not required of it - that, in fact, are a substantial part of the work of the Probationer. A Student isn't required to master all of that stuff!
I thought, though, that you were building to a question. (Perhaps I was mistaken.) I didn't see one at the end. Was there a question?
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Thank you for the explanation. That does help....
As far as the question regarding what to visualise during the invoking of the pentagram, I should have included the invocation of the Archangels. Do you visualise the Archangels differently, perhaps turning in or out, with regard to invocation vs. banishing?
As far as the last paragraph, I have your book on the A.'.A.'., so I understand that, that the work I listed is of higher grade than student, but that's my point: Every one seems to say start with the LBRP, but that is Ch. IV of Liber O, after mastery of all those other practices in the previous three chapters.
What I was leading up to is my opinion of the necessity of a Thelemic religion that fills the needs of non-magicians (or aspiring ones). Perhaps that is what the OTO or the Temple of Thelema is designed to provide, but those groups are not (very) active in my locale, in contrast to some Wicca/Neo-Pagan groups.
Also, if you feel like it, can you address my question #4?
Thank you.
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@nderabloodredsky said
"As far as the question regarding what to visualise during the invoking of the pentagram, I should have included the invocation of the Archangels. Do you visualise the Archangels differently, perhaps turning in or out, with regard to invocation vs. banishing?"
No. I don't visualize them until the moment I say their names. That's when they manifest. (They aren't there with the drawing of the pentagrams.) [Exception: Early visualization in some preliminary training exercises.]
"As far as the last paragraph, I have your book on the A.'.A.'., so I understand that, that the work I listed is of higher grade than student, but that's my point: Every one seems to say start with the LBRP, but that is Ch. IV of Liber O, after mastery of all those other practices in the previous three chapters."
Not everyone. (For example, I don't say that.)
"What I was leading up to is my opinion of the necessity of a Thelemic religion that fills the needs of non-magicians (or aspiring ones). Perhaps that is what the OTO or the Temple of Thelema is designed to provide, but those groups are not (very) active in my locale, in contrast to some Wicca/Neo-Pagan groups."
One can differentiate one's "simply practicing," or one's seeking / exploring from one's pursuing a specific intiatiatory path. You'd been talking about the latter, and I think you are unnecessarily merging them.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@nderabloodredsky said
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"As far as the last paragraph, I have your book on the A.'.A.'., so I understand that, that the work I listed is of higher grade than student, but that's my point: Every one seems to say start with the LBRP, but that is Ch. IV of Liber O, after mastery of all those other practices in the previous three chapters."Not everyone. (For example, I don't say that.)"
"Are you saying you don't advise the LBRP for beginners? If so, what do you suggest?
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@nderabloodredsky said
"Are you saying you don't advise the LBRP for beginners? If so, what do you suggest?"
It depends on the individual and the path they are taking. - The answer I would give also would vary as to whether we were talking about (1) just somebody wanting to get into all this stuff vs. (2) a formal program for initiates.
(For example, Temple of Thelema follows the pattern the G.D. should have followed from their own design documents, of not introducing the Pentagram Ritual in the 0° but only after attunement to Malkuth.)
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@nderabloodredsky said
"Are you saying you don't advise the LBRP for beginners? If so, what do you suggest?"It depends on the individual and the path they are taking. - The answer I would give also would vary as to whether we were talking about (1) just somebody wanting to get into all this stuff vs. (2) a formal program for initiates.
(For example, Temple of Thelema follows the pattern the G.D. should have followed from their own design documents, of not introducing the Pentagram Ritual in the 0° but only after attunement to Malkuth.)"
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O.K. Interesting....