The HGA and Christian god
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Bereshith;
Sometimes your choice of words makes me wonder how much you understand, or refuse to understand. Granted, the Roman Catholic Church is an Old Aeon vessel - but it was a righted vessel at one time or another. Don't throw the baby out with the baptism. -
93,
""...in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter..." Sometimes their choice of words makes me wonder how much they understand. Perhaps it's a vain hope. I don't know."
I've always held the belief that the pope has all the 'old' books that they seized during the witch trials. I also believe them to be intelligent people who have probably learnt classical mythology at some point and also will be well aware of Thelema and other religions, even if they view it as a competition of faith. They must know the origins of their own religion lies in a various gluing together of pagan myths.
I also liked his emphasis on strength, relating to Geburah and back to Ra Hoor Khuit. But maybe that's just a coincidence.
Its a shame the smiling pope (Pope John Paul I) was assassinated, he had some ideas which would have made me respect Catholicism more.
Anyway, thanks for sharing.
93's.
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Was right what the church did in the past, but it´s not right now, when they are still the same rancid bullshit? I don´t get that.
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@Takamba said
"Bereshith;
Sometimes your choice of words makes me wonder how much you understand, or refuse to understand. Granted, the Roman Catholic Church is an Old Aeon vessel - but it was a righted vessel at one time or another. Don't throw the baby out with the baptism."Hm. I'm not sure of the misunderstanding. It's probably my fault though. And the original post is from two years ago...
I would love nothing more than for the Catholic Church, guided by those piloting Saint Peter's ship of consciousness, to find a way to understand "Jesus" as the initial "stand-in" name for the HGA, much like Thelemic aspirants are encouraged intially to use "Aiwass."
I know the name "Jesus" has served that purpose for me, but I had to jump ship, and I had a really hard swim.
Man, wouldn't it be incredible for them to land that big old ship in the current Aeon in a way that provided congruence for its members making the transition from one Aeon to the other?
"He's got....high hopes..."
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Step 1: Retreat from the position that "Evil is the 'privation of Good'" (ala Augustine) and go with something more along the lines of "Evil is the result of the ignorance that precedes learning."
Step 2: Allow for many past references to "man" or "humanity" to be refering to the level of human personality while acknowledging that human beings are capable of experiencing more than that one level of themselves along the inner spectrum existing from the human personality to the Divine. Orthodox Christianity has long worked with the concept of "apotheosis," so this isn't a completely impossible stretch.
With those two seeds, much could grow.
Like I said... "high hopes..."
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@Smokey Monking said
"Was right what the church did in the past, but it´s not right now, when they are still the same rancid bullshit? I don´t get that."
You fail to separate one conclusion from the other. In the Old Aeon, Old Aeon things worked. To say you agree that something was once right is not to say that you agree that that something is always right. It is right to add cream to tea if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not if the tea is still boiling (as the cream will curdle and taste sour).
Not all things of the Old Aeon are black, only those that need to be purged (black and white thinking, for instance).
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Yeah, it seems Benny wasn't any too happy with my email to him upon his enthronement. (I elected to treat as sincere his many public statements that he wished to establish improved communicatons with representatives of other religions. But he was an adamant stand against moral relativism, among other things.)
"Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 1:27 PM
Subject: Congratulations and best wishesYour Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
On this occasion of your inaugural mass, please accept our best wishes and blessing. May you flourish in your Calling.
As you reach forth to embrace communion with those of other faiths and other spiritual paths, so do our hands reach to meet yours for our shared goals.
As expected, those pursuing differing spiritual paths will not agree on all things. We would disagree with you, for example, on the issue of moral absolutism. It is our teaching that true morality is founded upon the God-graced conscience living within each soul, with which each must strive to be in communion.
But we share with you common goals on many fundamental things. We wish and work for a more spiritual life for all, increased personal moral responsibility, and peace among nations in the realization of God's love.
Benedictio, Benedicto.
Love is the law, love under will.
Yours in Light,
James A. Eshelman
M.G.H. Prolocutor General
Temple of Thelema" -
Continuing....
Step 3: Allow for an understanding of the doctrine of Hell that uses a "Purgatorial" concept of reincarnation in terms of the "Hell of perpetually self-reinforcing, downward cycles of bad karma" versus the "Heaven of liberation."
...You know... just my notes for the new Pope...
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Yeah, it seems Benny wasn't any too happy with my email to him upon his enthronement. (I elected to treat as sincere his many public statements that he wished to establish improved communicatons with representatives of other religions. But he was an adamant stand against moral relativism, among other things.)
"
Well... I guess maybe get ready to revise and update that email...
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@Takamba said
" It is right to add cream to tea if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not if the tea is still boiling (as the cream will curdle and taste sour)."
I was going to make a joke about bishop´s raping children before and after the new aeon with that, but I desisted because I know you are sensible people.
I simply disagree with you and admit it: I´m an obvious case of black and white thinking. I think the evolution of conciousness from one aeon to another don´t change the fact that things like murder, opression, enslavement, looting, etc etc (that things Roman Catholic Church did and still do, you know), are simply, let´s say it this way, inadvisable in any time moment.
In other order of things, about the believing in Jesus, "good christianity", and so on, I don´t give a fvck, they can do whatever they want.
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@Smokey Monking said
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@Takamba said
" It is right to add cream to tea if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not if the tea is still boiling (as the cream will curdle and taste sour)."I was going to make a joke about bishop´s raping children before and after the new aeon with that, but I desisted because I know you are sensible people.
I simply disagree with you and admit it: I´m an obvious case of black and white thinking. I think the evolution of conciousness from one aeon to another don´t change the fact that things like murder, opression, enslavement, looting, etc etc (that things Roman Catholic Church did and still do, you know), are simply, let´s say it this way, inadvisable in any time moment.
In other order of things, about the believing in Jesus, "good christianity", and so on, I don´t give a fvck, they can do whatever they want."
Oh, so you're confusing the actions of those "under the Church" with the spiritual language of The Pope himself. I see now, you aren't talking about "spiritual vessels," you are talking about human beings. Many a Thelemite has been to prison, before and after recognizing their flaws. Let's condemn Jim for that!
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@Takamba said
"
Oh, so you're confusing the actions of those "under the Church" with the spiritual language of The Pope himself. I see now, you aren't talking about "spiritual vessels," you are talking about human beings. Many a Thelemite has been to prison, before and after recognizing their flaws. Let's condemn Jim for that!"Yeah, we DEMAND an explication from him or, at least, a response, lol.
I was doubting, seeing how you mix both things, "Roman Catholic Church" and the fucking Pope, and the "spiritual" thing. I still don´t see clear some things, but well I haven´t time enough now in any case.
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Some Christian monastic orders perform interesting prayers...
There is one I plan on knowing once I am granted the name of my Angel
In order to bring us into union ;
Though it has interesting effects simply using Jesus Christ -
The main difference I noticed between Thelema in Christianity, is Christianity has a lack of emphasis on doing one's true will. It would not necessarily be considered a sin to do things against ones nature the way that I understand it now in Thelema. However, I noticed in my life how the things I did that were unthelemic lead me to do things that others would generally consider to be wrong, as well as regretting the actions myself.
When I was a Christian, I did not consider there to be anything wrong with suffering through something, after all, Christianity has a certain emphasis on suffering as being spiritual. What I did not understand as a Christian, is how sorrow could become joy, because I did not understand the internal changes described in the Book of the Law.
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@Bereshith said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Yeah, it seems Benny wasn't any too happy with my email to him upon his enthronement. (I elected to treat as sincere his many public statements that he wished to establish improved communicatons with representatives of other religions. But he was an adamant stand against moral relativism, among other things.)"Well... I guess maybe get ready to revise and update that email...
"...from the bark of Thomas to the bark of Peter...
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@Shadow Self said
"The main difference I noticed between Thelema in Christianity, is Christianity has a lack of emphasis on doing one's true will. It would not necessarily be considered a sin to do things against ones nature the way that I understand it now in Thelema. However, I noticed in my life how the things I did that were unthelemic lead me to do things that others would generally consider to be wrong, as well as regretting the actions myself.
When I was a Christian, I did not consider there to be anything wrong with suffering through something, after all, Christianity has a certain emphasis on suffering as being spiritual. What I did not understand as a Christian, is how sorrow could become joy, because I did not understand the internal changes described in the Book of the Law."
Yeah.. Somehow the message has been completely distorted or they just had no idea of what was trying to be put across.
To me, what this jesus character was trying to illustrate is that the whole exultation of the body is given up in favour of the spirit, which you love as you could never love the body, that its from beyond the barriers to love that love calls, and that they are surmounted by the attraction of what lies beyond that... us wanting fear seems to hold those barriers in place.
The temptation and the devil thing seemed to me as describing an ordeal where we stand in terror before what we always swore never to look upon, so we look down clinging to the promises we make to our allies.. that delicate appeal of sin and guilt and the fear of the vengeance of the ego that we swore never to abandon.. If we lift that veil all of our allies will be gone forever.
Thats where i think he was describing them as illusory fears.. all that happens is the re-establishment of your will where you are never again at the mercy of forces you cant control, thoughts that come to you against your will.. that it's actually your will to look upon this and that what attracts you from beyond the veil is deep within you, unseperated and completely one.
Thats my personal take on it but that's in no way what the Church actually teaches and i can imagine was quite an anathema to what they want from people.I mean imagine them trying to incorporate passages that speak from the angle of feminine divine power.
For instance a passage that was omitted called Thunder, Perfect Mind."For I am the first and the last. I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin....
I am the barren one, and many are her sons....
I am the silence that is incomprehensible....
I am the utterance of my name."You can see combining of opposites in the text.