Ecology, sustainability and the coming "apocalypse"
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The Abby and it's idealized expression in diary of a drug fiend, seem to be ecologically and economically sound self supporting communities off the grid and thus safe from collapse. Also the blue equinox model,is an excellent means to establish the organic state and promote a natural hierarchy and caste system where each Will can finds it's level and everyone find a higher purpose in the group as a whole. These are all compatible with project Venus, and I see many useful ideas adaptable from skinners walden two.
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@modernP said
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It seems as though society as a whole and particularly our Christian-influenced Western society with their strong focus on an afterlife have not stopped to look at the present moment (and the future consequences) of human life itself. The Zeitgeist trilogy of documentaries delves quite deeply into the problem and exposes how consumerism with no thought of consequence is embedded in our monetary system, our economics and our incessant need for material objects to fill the void of a deep dissatisfaction with life. "Talking about our money system... I think you need to watch “Debt based money system" 1-5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8You can also view “Money as Debt II Promises Unleashed” 1-8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doYllBk5NoI hope this addition to the thread does not detract from it.
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The economy based on human need is exactly what Crowley was driving at with the economy of the abby. The theory goes that you remove news papers and sales pitches from peoples reading and have them read classics instead, that way they are not getting their heads filled up with artificial desires for things Thayer don't really need. That is part of knowing your will, is knowing that superfluous possessions are nothing more than a distraction and needless burden. In this way, the society as a whole does not waste time and money on useless things that pollute, create noise, lead to debts, and other ways interfere with individual will. The other side of the coin, is that whatever is actually needed by any individual is made available, some one may share or give away an burdensome object, or the community as a whole knowing that there is mutual benefit in every member being bake to perform the function. Of their will, would work to acquire that needed object or resource that the individual lacks. Ideally no one would have to actually ask or beg for the needed object as ones brothers in the order would recognize that need and offer it as if repaying a debt to you.
In this way there is little need for money in the community, as the mutual aid is secured and frivolous desires are minimized. Unlike in our consumer culture based not on human need but mass production for profit, where every means is used to stir the passions and fears to foster greed and lust for things ultimately unsatisfying, just to drive the profits, and to keep us all slaves to debt. This is exactly contrary to your true will, which is drilling the passions to discover what is truly fulfilling to you, while the media culture only wants to stir up a cloud of passions and muddle your mind so your true will is lost in a noose sea of distracting whims.
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Sustainability is important because all the choices we pursue and all the actions that we make today will affect everything in the future. We need to make sound decisions at present in order to avoid limiting the choices of generations to come.
[www.morrisonhershfield.com/sustainability/Pages/default.aspx:hvfn63fi]](http://www.morrisonhershfield.com/sustainability/Pages/default.aspx:hvfn63fi)
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93,
Just to make it clear, I haven't read the other posts, so I'm sorry if I'm interrupting anything.
- Do you think an "apocalypse" of sorts is headed our way?
If I think rationally, I don't think so. At least, not one of those "the planet will blow up!" things, that is. The planet is billions years old, people have lived on it for millions of years. Why would it suddenly end? Why would it happen in OUR period? Of course there are countless of theories, but really, there have been for decades.
The only apocalypse I'm worried about is a human one. We're becoming individualistic, self-centered, greedy, needy and cruel. Nobody cares for their fellow human beings anymore, or for nature, or for culture, or for all of those things that make the world beautiful and bearable. There is war over stupid things, there's riots over poverty. Every time I take another walk, a part of me dies, because nature is being heartlessly demolished for new houses (I guess it must be my Taurus side, in touch with nature so deeply) and nobody I whine about it to seems to know what I'm talking about.
- Do you think it is even viable to counter this by promoting ecological awareness, the reform of rampant consumerism or is it a case of "too little too late"? Do we try to live in harmony with the natural laws of the planet or do we support the coming destruction.
How have we grown so arrogant as to think we can stop the forces of Mother Nature by selling people 'green' products? Honestly?
Those were my two cents.
93, 93/93
- Do you think an "apocalypse" of sorts is headed our way?
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i read all the posts to find out what others think about the zeitgeist movement. all i'm gonna say is, i don't like it. it's half truths blended with propaganda and misses an important aspect of story telling. it lacks a certain kind of magic it purports to have, in my opinion, of course.
sustainability is where it's at. it's fun to do. an elder recently told me though, he doesn't think focusing on the ecology is where it's at. all you have to do is love your mother. so then i thought, being he's an indian, he is speaking about mother earth and taking care of her. but he wasn't. it made me wonder lots of things. especially since i was an enviro. major (sustainable communities). i wonder if everyone loves their mother. i wonder if there is any aspect that this particular message (a lot of tribes talk of this as a part of prophecy) has value in relationship to mother earth and her ability to tend to her children? shrug
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Wine, song, food, fire, clothes, shelter and seed. No mourning for the old empire when the indigo children come: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kntk-APTfg
By the lead singer of tool. Is a member of a TOTO offshoot lodge. Lives in the hills of Arizona which he's jokingly referred to as future beach property. This song gets at the idea of a future where an electromagnetic pulse is emitted from the sun and destroys our digital world.
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@anistara said
"sustainability is where it's at. it's fun to do. an elder recently told me though, he doesn't think focusing on the ecology is where it's at. all you have to do is love your mother. so then i thought, being he's an indian, he is speaking about mother earth and taking care of her. but he wasn't. it made me wonder lots of things. especially since i was an enviro. major (sustainable communities). i wonder if everyone loves their mother. i wonder if there is any aspect that this particular message (a lot of tribes talk of this as a part of prophecy) has value in relationship to mother earth and her ability to tend to her children? shrug"
This made me think of an event that many young men experience, effectively changing them from titans into lovers. If you spend enough time among young people you can see this clearly in their early and mid teens. It's that moment when they fall in love and are 'softened' by this experience. Finally, they relate and identify with another person, and caring for that person stop being so concerned only with themselves. Before that happens they are grossly immature beings, selfish, heedless, cruel...
Love and Will
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@fool said
"Wine, song, food, fire, clothes, shelter and seed. No mourning for the old empire when the indigo children come: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kntk-APTfg
By the lead singer of tool. Is a member of a TOTO offshoot lodge. Lives in the hills of Arizona which he's jokingly referred to as future beach property. This song gets at the idea of a future where an electromagnetic pulse is emitted from the sun and destroys our digital world."
lives in jerome, near sedona and hopiland. caduceus cellars in-between. i like tool a lot, unsure if maynard is actually a thelemite due to the new age-ness of some lyrics. the sedona new age gets infiltrated into their music being that it's 5 miles down the road. i am opinionated (admitting).
hangar 18, i know too much (megadeth).
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@Dar said
"What do people think of the idea of a dual run 'Gift Economy' with a 'Resource Dollar Economy'?
i.e. - as proposed by the Science writer Kim Stanley Robinson in the 'Mars' trilogy?
Or how about the model of democratic business - as proposed by Ian Banks in the novel 'The Business'?"
all for the gift economy. in my culture we have the potlatch. it's an amazing thing to experience. it was banned in the 50's (the ban has been lifted fairly recently so we potlatch again) because it wasn't taxable. heathens...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch
it works though. no one left behind. *it's also a society built on hierarchy, status positions and secret societies. theres a trick in how it is maintained and has for thousands of years. no one gripes about the top people, aka chief famlies because they do well to take care of everyone-- we just have the most copper shields and bragging rights.<< an important element!
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I'll start my own thread if need be, but this is from an essay I recently wrote for an English class has to do with this subject. If Dar can post a novel I can too.
The Decline of Capitalism
The principles of capitalism are antagonistic to environmental stewardship. Consumer culture, with its emphasis on waste and overconsumption, cannot continue indefinitely without a major alteration in economic priorities. The worldwide obsession with “more,” a trend too widespread to attribute to any one culture or nation, is rapidly draining the limited resources of the planet. The monetary system, the basis by which money is created and traded, cannot be infinitely exploited without causing social collapse. While many economists and politicians hold that there is no real problem, a growing number of individuals are becoming increasingly aware of the imbalances between human consumption and the environment. By eliminating needless waste, improving resource management, and realizing the true value of “things,” it is possible that humanity can reduce this disturbing trend that threatens to make our planet a lifeless orb.
Capitalism has for its main premise the freedom of trade between individuals, an economic situation in which the wealth of each individual is determined by that individual themselves. Capitalism is also called the “free enterprise” system, and this is considered a fundamental part of any democracy. Yet is the free enterprise system truly free? Are the institutions of wage slavery and the ever-present desire for monetary gain compatable with the freedom of individuals? Not always. Capitalism, like any other economic system, requires that one choose from a fixed set of options, and these options are determined by consumer demand. Thus every aspect of the economy revolves around the consumer, an imaginary individual that has appeared like a parasitic growth on the underbelly of the free enterprise system. In a capitalist society, good is valued not for its own sake, but as a correlary of self-interest. In a society where self-interest, and not the greater good, takes precedence, human beings are no longer human beings, but consumers. It is for the sake of the consumer that this system exists in the first place, as, not surprisingly, the first aim of any capitalist system is the production of capital.
Everywhere, all over the world, ignorant minds plot to reduce the world to rubble. And why? For the sake of gain, or “capital,” the one and only reason for living. Without capital the earth will not move, the sun will not shine, the wheels of progress will grind to a halt and indiginous peoples across the globe will continue to live their lives free of “civilization,” and all the damning consequences that come with it. The guiding forces of “civilization,” addicted to the aimless vices of prosperity, are given over to the idea that our world has unlimited resources, and can be raped for an indefinite amount of timed without any consequences whatsover. No consequences, that is, unless you count displaced peoples, blasted ecosystems, cancerous diseases, and every other element of doom and destruction known to man. What folly to speak of future generations! Our children will grow up like lab rats, staring vacantly at blinking screens while the entire planet goes to shit. Yes, the future is bleak. Despite the concerns of countless individuals, from scientists to activists and holy men, society tends increasingly towards consumerism. In both the East and West, citizens of every nation are goaded like cattle to buy things they don't really need. Nowhere in the United States is this trend more widespread, or more amusing. “The United States is the most consumer-oriented society in the world,” says Juliet Schor, author of “Born to Buy.” Consumerism, a state of being in which the purchasing of goods is done for its own sake, is what our culture will be remembered for. Archeologists years hence will not be astounded by our skyscrapers or cathedrals, but by the majesty of the shopping mall. “What could this be,” they will say, “but the shrine of some glorious and unknown god?” The Romans had their baths, the Americans have their shopping malls. Every Saturday morning, hordes of eager consumers suit up in the latest garb and prepare to shop. And the carnage doesn't end there. Have you tried watching television lately? Commercials are multiplying at an alarming rate. Children in the throes of puberty conduct complex relationships with people they've never met, over the internet. Every city street is invested with billboards, every newspaper with ads, every radio station is awash with the jabber of car commercials. Not that there's much to listen to, but human beings can only withstand so much indignity. That is, unless they are conditioned to like it. Human beings, through the power of suggestion, can be induced to do just about anything. The first thing any student of economics learns is something called the “invisible hand,” a force present throughout society, that guides every human deed and rules over the consequences. “God,” you ask? No, self interest. Every human being has desires, wants, and needs. By appealing to these needs, through deceptive means or overtly, interested parties can increase net profit, maximize gain, and reap the manifold rewards of stupidity. The media, strangely enough, is involved in this overt deception, and works deliberately to distort facts. This state of being is inescapable. “Many adults respond to the critique of media and consumerism by shrugging it off, on the grounds that this culture is inescapable,” says Schor. Where facts cannot be distorted, they are directly falsified. The news and television and advertising agencies that make up the media control just about every aspect of modern life. They are, as it were, the backdrop that lends light to the deluded forces that comprise our sad civilization—and people listen to them! Most go willingly to the slaughter. The majority of human beings are too wrapped up in menial cares to give a shit about the state of humanity. Not until the situation is too outrageous, (and this is usually when people can no longer eat,) will the starved, enslaved mass of society revolt against its overseers. In America, the land of prosperity, it remains for those with a consience to assail the ears of their countrymen. Yet, once again, most are too self-absorbed to interest themselves in such distant concerns. There are mortgages to pay, new gadets to purchase, and a host of fresh new distractions being invented every minute to usurp the time and energy of our labor force. The votaries of democracy assert with ardent conviction that freedom is attained, yet there remains the institution of wage slavery, which is the art of giving human beings just enough to survive, so they can't become to comfortable or powerful to revolt. For some strange reason, most people either don't have a problem with this state of affairs. Perhaps in the passionate stages of youth an ardent desire for reform is espoused, but adulthood often brings the tiresome desolation of work and recouperation. The swarming market of useless goods and services touted by ubiquitous adverts and salesmen supplements this new, invisible slavery, and new converts are born every day. Furthermore, to implement the institution of wage slavery, the powers that be have fabricated a unique and powerful means by which to render their designs incarnate: “the system.” Those who have managed to free themselves from the constraints of mass media and consumer culture, have still to face “the system,” that favorite word of paranoiacs and meth freaks. What is “the system?” It is the political, social, and ethical framework of society, which shapes and determines the lives of its inhabitants. Were it not for the system, one could well escape to the desert and live in peace and dignity, like the Manson family. But the system is everywhere, and is designed to keep every member of society docile and uninformed. The remarkable thing about the system is that it is engineered, like a perpetual machine, to generate revenue from atrophy. The system reaps but does not sow; harvests, but does not plant. Bound by the fetters of debt and other such ingenious goads, the average man cannot help but be swept up in the tide of progress, and take his humble place beneath the cogs and gears. Human beings are not the aim and center of the universe. As Bacon sayeth, “for it is a false assertion that man is the measure of all things.” The cosmologists and astrologers of old approached the cosmos with fear and humility, struck with awe at the complexities of the universe. Not so with modern science which, thank God, has at last delineated the firmament into a convoluted aggregate of theories, phrases, numbers, and abstract speculation. The fundamental problems of humanity are here and now. This is not to denigrate the scientific community, but there are more useful ways to spend time besides discovering new types of plastics. Capitalism diverts everything to the cause of material gain, and perverts every activity to the end of profit. Nowhere is this tendency so prevalent as in the realm of education, where young minds are turned from their natural inclinations, and goaded into ready-made prisons called careers, at which point the graduate is made to swear an oath to the god Per Capita. The present generation is too involved in such pressing concerns as text messaging and the internet to be interested in the imminent demise of the planet earth. Sure, there are a healthy number of youths who see to the heart of the matter—but the institutions of education are here against them. What is school but a prolonged indoctrination in the dogmas of gain? From the very beginning, students are classified and predisposed to the society of their peers. The aim is conformity, and those who cannot embrace these arbitrary distinctions are cast by the wayside, unfit for the conditions required by a culture primarily concerned with producing consumers. Those who aren't corrupted by the institutional ladder are still subject to a working world where careers are measured in dollars per year, and idle concerns like personal happiness are bound to the fetters of materialism. Can human beings actually stand to be so quantified and objectified? Apparently so, as no huge societal change is yet taking place. Yes, there is activism, concern, even a widespread earnestness about the task at hand. But until these concerns become more powerful than those who operate the system (the holders of capital), no significant change will take place. Perhaps it will take something catastrophic to wake the denizens of humanity. Broad social change, throughout history, has always been accomplished by the lower classes. The formula is simple: when the upper classes of society become so engorged on gain that they control the majority of resources, the working classes revolt, driven by necessity to restore their rightful place in society. Human beings can stand a great deal of abuse, however, before they reach a state of rebellion, and in such a prosperous country as the United States, this change may likely precipitated from without. The economic situation of our country is established on principles that have no correlation with the laws of nature. In essence, the monetary system is based on the fictional premise that money, a vague enough thing, can be multiplied by itself indefinitely. Banks and other financial institutions lend money at interest to others, when in fact the assets involved don't even exist. Eveything is based upon speculation, and sometimes, when a handfull of cunning minds discover a way to exploit the monetary system, whole societies are driven into collapse. So, what exactly can one do, given the gravity of the situation? Well, to begin with, populations are growing at an alarming rate. While economists hold that resources are unlimited, this is simply not the case. An indefinite number of people can not indefinitely consume the resources of a planet for an indefinite amount of time. This formula should be at the forefront of every first-grade reading book, as it embodies the fundamental problem we face as a species. Humanity is spreading at a cancerous rate, and unless there is a change in cultural values, there is a high probability that the situation will implode, leading to resource battles, disease, and other such symptoms of planetary malaise. The average human being shows little interest in girding its loins for the prevention of re-population. It doesn't take much higher math: when the birth rate exceed the death rate, resources such as food, fuel, and other necesseties are in higher demand. If steps aren't taken to meet this demand in a sustainable way, dire consequences are the result. -
If you look at the science behind environmental disturbances, it's pretty thin and often flawed. If there's going to be an apocalypse, and I say some kind of a purification has to come, it'll happen because of the ignorance of mankind. I'm not in any way saying we're not raping the environment, quite on the utmost contrary, just that I don't think we're affecting the climate as much as the fuss is about. IPCC has some flaws.
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well dar, i've investigated this novel since it doesn't make sense to me in the least how the term "potlatch" is used in this story! (confused). it's like saying that thelema is almost like wicca. they both do rituals right? there are some things similar, but i wouldn't take it there really.
but i have a new interest where this word is being utilized to the masses... 
gift economy is a multi-faceted art-form. i am skeptical society at large could actually manage the responsibility of giving away everything to be at the top of the totem pole (which is what causes that position).
now about the apocalypse...
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But consider - how in this story potlatching accrues negative connotations because the populace is trying to escape from the traditional hierarchical 'top down' model. They try and come up with an alternative model but the 'top down' model comes back to life - as it does in any revolution. Even a velvet one. And even on Mars."true true. i do consider! it's a part of my life's work (in conjunction with thelema, it blends nicely! it is similar in many ways). the lack part is that potlatch society does what thelema is working on achieving, the 4 L's. crowley woulda loved a hamatsa! he liked those other indians...
the apocalyptic nature of humans is addressed in a lot of cultures as a part of it, not something we're waiting for later on (as a whole, perhaps as an individual, we work and wait). it can be potentially addressed as an art form also. (?)