Question about the Greater Ritual of the Pentagram
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@bdc said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"3) Toward East:
--- a) Make invoking Active Spirit Pentagram with AHIH + SIgn of Opening the Veil
--- b) Make invoking Fire pentagram with ALHIM + 4=7 sign"what are your thoughts on the golden dawn's application of enochian aspects to this section? i know you mentioned above that it is a matter of context, however i get the impression from studying the golden dawn material that they were keen on incorporating enochian aspects whenever they could, to such an extent that the golden dawn's surpreme pentagram ritual incorporating the tablet of union and enochian god names is pretty much presented as the standard, with the version of the greater pentagram ritual you have outlined here seeming like an adaptation (though i presume it is rather the other way round)."
My thoughts (remembering that you asked for opinions
Mathers (and probably Westcott equally) tried to incorporate Enochian into as many avenues of Second Order work as they could, probably to flesh out the system, certainly to develop something that wasn't generally known. One might almost think of it as a personal pantheon - they used it the way that a Thelemite might (for example) supplement (rather than replace) classic Hebrew hierarchies with Thelemic pantheon names. It seemed a big deal to them - perhaps personally, and also in terms of the system they were building.For myself, I've always tended to keep Enochian more in its own box. If I'm working specifically Enochian elements, then I used those hierarchies. I consider them secondary to the Hebraic hierachies because (a) Dee invoked classic Kabbalistic Divine Names to inaugurate his communication with the Enochian entities, (b) the highly successful G.D. elemental grade openings use that approach, and (c) it has always worked well and felt right for me personally. However, outside of distinctive Enochian workings, I don't incorporate them. Chanting Oyopeh Tea'a Pedokeh gives me access to Enochian hierarchies and helps open the tablet that responds to those names, but just doesn't do much for me in terms of rousing the powers of Fire as such. Give me a good ol' Elohim any day! Edalaperena'a is extremely potent and wondrous, used with the right setup, to unlock the swirling solar force that dominates and powers the same Fire tablet, but just doesn't do much for me in isolation.
"crowley doesn't cover the supreme pentagram rituals in any detail in his published works, though his version of the bornless ritual incorporates the sigils and names of the enochian elemental kings."
What Crowley called the Greater Ritual of the Pentagram (in Liber O) is what was historically called the Supreme Ritual of the Pentagram. I prefer that term (and we have restored it in Temple of Thelema) because there is an entirely different (unpublished) Greater Ritual of the Pentagram, which has a cherished place in our training system. - But you're right to the extent that he didn't mention the Enochian variant. (And it IS a variant, not standard technique.)
"i've lately been considering a series of rituals, taking place over several days or even weeks, by which an individual, solitary practitioner such as myself - who is unable to join organisations physically - might explore the elements via the pentagram rituals (after of course a long period of working with the lesser banishing and invoking rituals of the pentagram, middle pillar, meditation and asana)."
If that's the goal, then I would point out that it takes at least three months, and in most cases at least six months, if sustained focus on something in order to make a persistent change. For the goal stated, I'd suggest six months per element, not days or weeks.
"for spirit then, one has the opening of the portal to explore. is it possible to use the lesser ritual of pentagram to invoke spirit active?"
Essentially that's what one does - or, perhaps, you could call it a variation of the Supreme. The main point is that the Quintessence arises from the activation and integration of the other elements, not as a thing in isolation. The Portal opening is a good model - it invokes each of the four elements in turn, and then, at the center, invokes Spirit active (projective) and then passive (receptive).
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@Jim Eshelman said
"there is an entirely different (unpublished) Greater Ritual of the Pentagram, which has a cherished place in our training system."
i have seen a note on a "true greater ritual of the pentagram", claimed to have been written by crowley "on a train to india" in 1906, which places the magician above tiphareth on the path of gimel, involving both normal and inverted pentagrams and almost entirely egyptian godnames... is this the one you are referring to?
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@bdc said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"there is an entirely different (unpublished) Greater Ritual of the Pentagram, which has a cherished place in our training system."i have seen a note on a "true greater ritual of the pentagram", claimed to have been written by crowley "on a train to india" in 1906, which places the magician above tiphareth on the path of gimel, involving both normal and inverted pentagrams and almost entirely egyptian godnames... is this the one you are referring to?"
No, this has nothing to do with Crowley. He never knew about this one. (I have that paper, btw. His hand writing was unusually jagged on the presumably bouncy train ride.)
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ah, very interesting. thanks for clearing all that up... that ritual of his struck me as interesting but definitely incomplete, and rather overwrought.
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a few more questions regarding the pentagram rituals, i do hope they are not too tiresome!
if one wishes to invoke a specific element, let's say "fire" for example, what exactly is the difference with regards to efficacy between the lesser ritual invoking fire and the supreme ritual invoking fire? obviously spirit is involved in the latter, would this imply that it is only suitable once the adept has made their own development of working with all the elements one after the other? and also, with regards to a pure elemental invocation, there is the simple question of why use the supreme when one can use the lesser?
finally, returning back to your summary for the supreme:
- Toward East:
--- a) Make invoking Active Spirit Pentagram with AHIH + SIgn of Opening the Veil
--- b) Make invoking Fire pentagram with ALHIM + 4=7 sign
is one not using the spirit wheel and kerubic signs in the supreme in this case?
and with regard to the latter, is it more or less suitable to replace the eagle symbol with that of scorpio in the case of water? - Toward East:
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@bdc said
"if one wishes to invoke a specific element, let's say "fire" for example, what exactly is the difference with regards to efficacy between the lesser ritual invoking fire and the supreme ritual invoking fire?"
Different intensities. And yes, it has something to do with one's own initiation / training to that point, since there is a certain invalidation that occurs when you pretend to employ things to which you have no attunement, familiarity, etc. Exposure matters.
There aren't hard rules here, but a general principle or two.
"obviously spirit is involved in the latter, would this imply that it is only suitable once the adept has made their own development of working with all the elements one after the other?"
This matches the fact that the Supreme is historically not introduced until during or after the Portal grade, i.e., during or after the phase of reintegrating the divided light into white (full-spectrum) light.
"and also, with regards to a pure elemental invocation, there is the simple question of why use the supreme when one can use the lesser?"
There is value in "keep it simple."
I once asked Regardie (while we were sitting on his porch, and I got to be very physically dramatic about the whole thing) how one is supposed to maintain energized enthusiasm in an invoking hexagram ritual of the Sun when one is (in Golden Dawn style) doing six different hexagrams with vibrations in each quarter (plus the fifth toward the Sun), etc. etc. ... how does anyone maintain a full head of magical steam through all that? He answered elegantly: You don't. Nobody does.
There is value in doing major things for major operations where you prepare yourself as if for a singular life-altering event and give it everything you have and then more. OTOH you can't do that every day. There is value in using a simple knife to slice a tomato.
"finally, returning back to your summary for the supreme:
- Toward East:
--- a) Make invoking Active Spirit Pentagram with AHIH + SIgn of Opening the Veil
--- b) Make invoking Fire pentagram with ALHIM + 4=7 sign
is one not using the spirit wheel and kerubic signs in the supreme in this case?"
You can. I didn't mention it because I take that for granted. (I never bother with the spirit wheel, but routinely visualize - not trace, just visualize - the Kerubic astrological sign in the center of elemental pentagrams. It does seem to concentrate it more.)
"and with regard to the latter, is it more or less suitable to replace the eagle symbol with that of scorpio in the case of water?"
Don't use the eagle. (It's the wrong attribution anyway. The G.D. had the eagle and "man" reversed. But that's another story.) Use the four astrological glyphs.
- Toward East:
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"1) Face East
- Qabalistic Cross
- Toward East:
--- a) Make invoking Active Spirit Pentagram with AHIH + SIgn of Opening the Veil
--- b) Make invoking Fire pentagram with ALHIM + 4=7 sign - Carry the line around to the South and repeat (3).
- Carry the line around to the West and repeat (3).
- Carry the line around to the North and repeat (3).
- Close the circle to the East.
Usual section with the Archangels &c. - Qab Cross"
So, if I want to do a GRP Invoking Earth, in the a) b) sections (and for the rest of the quarters), would be:
a) Make the invoking Pentagram for Spirit Passive, visualized in white light. Vibrate A:G:L:A. Give the sign of the Closing of the Veil.
b) Make the invoking Pentagram of Earth, visualized in green light. Vibrate ADONAI. Give the sign of Set Fighting.Also, opinions. Would it be recommendable to use it for pathworking Malkuth, for example? I'm currently starting my meditations on this sephira and I believe it would be a great inclusion Invoking Earth to fully experiment the sephira. Good idea? Bad idea?
Did I understand correctly? -
Yes, it would be a fine lead-in to Malkuth work, especially if you want to experience Malkuth as the field of elemental Earth. If, however, you want to experience Malkuth as the field of the four elements in balance, then the Supreme Ritual (not specialized by element) would produce this.
Malkuth per se can also be invoked with the Hexagram Ritual using the lowest point and the Malkuth hierarchy of names and visualizations.
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Thanks very much, Jim, much obliged.
One difference I noticed with LBRP, is the absence of the Sign of the Enterer and the projection of light. In the Ritual Magic Manual by D. Griffin, these Greater Pentagram Rituals include it. Why is that?
Also, I believe I should vibrate the Divine Names while doing the Pentagrams, isn't it? Or just point the center and vibrate the word (pretty much like your instructions for the Hexagram Ritual in 776 1/2)?
Also, I've seen in some websites that the the Supreme has the Invocation of Archangels, whereas the Greater has not. Could it be that the Invocation of Spirit Active/Passive replaces their role to some extent?
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That addition is david's addition, not a standard distinction.
On the last paragraph, I'm not sure what distinction you are drawing between the Greater and the Supreme. The GD had no Greater, only a Lesser and a Supreme. In Liber O, the Supreme is renamed the Greater. I have reverted to calling it Supreme because there IS a Greater Ritual of the Pentagram that has never been published, so I'm pretty sure it's not what you mean.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That addition is david's addition, not a standard distinction.
On the last paragraph, I'm not sure what distinction you are drawing between the Greater and the Supreme. The GD had no Greater, only a Lesser and a Supreme. In Liber O, the Supreme is renamed the Greater. I have reverted to calling it Supreme because there IS a Greater Ritual of the Pentagram that has never been published, so I'm pretty sure it's not what you mean."
Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, the Supreme I've read includes different enochian invocations (EXARP, for example), kerubic smbols drawn into each Pentagram, plus the Invocation of the Archangels at the end. Probably not what you meant either.
In Griffin's Manual, which currently serves as a basis for the GD student, there are difference between the Greater, which are for invoking/banishing specific elements, and Supreme, which are for balance the four elements. That's why I asked, I'm slowly shifting from a GD to a more holistic perspective, so I still confuse a thing or two. Thanks for the clarification.
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Yeah, that's all David's thing. On the premise of "Don't say anything if you can't say something nice," I'll drop out of this thread now.
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93
Is it necessary to do a LBRP or Star Ruby before doing the GRP ?
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@raven27 said
"93
Is it necessary to do a LBRP or Star Ruby before doing the GRP ?"
I always banish before invoking. Now, if you're using GRP to banish, I don't think it's necessary a LBRP.
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I always banish before invoking. Now, if you're using GRP to banish, I don't think it's necessary a LBRP."I figured that would make sense. .
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Jim, question about the Supreme Invoking Ritual of Pentagram:
is it to be done on its own, like the "generic" LBRP, or the Invoking should be followed by Banishing?
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@danica said
"Jim, question about the Supreme Invoking Ritual of Pentagram:
is it to be done on its own, like the "generic" LBRP, or the Invoking should be followed by Banishing?"
Though there could be exceptions, one generally wants to banish after invoking.
One exception: The Supreme Ritual, due to its wholeness, could be used as a type of Abramelin ritual (notice its structural similarity to Liber Samekh, for example). If one were working in a set-aside temple that had already been cleansed and consecrated, and wasn't used for anything else, and performed this (alone, or as part of a larger set) daily for a specific period of time, then one wouldn't banish after. In such an operation, one just keeps one's psyche on high simmer in the crock pot.
In fact, as a parallel, remember that no banishing rituals (only invoking rituals) are ever performed in the Vault of the Adepts; and this ritual is one that is suitable to perform in that place, or another place consecrated in the same way.
However, those are special cases. In general, one banishes after invoking (for a whole lot of good reasons).
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Thank you.
After a good decade of daily LBRP, I felt the need to switch to daily SRP. Performed the Invoking this morning, and the observable effects - I can say so far that the word "supreme" in its title is not an idle word!
I work in an improvised Temple, it's a shared room during most of the day, except when I withdraw there for mystical & magickal practices (usually twice daily). Currently, I have a week for solitary use of this space.
Will go for now with the banishing in the evening.
Until a suitable Temple-space appears -
93
Mr. Eshelman, I have question about SRP of four elements: in what color should one visualize the pentagrams and especially the connecting line?
Thanks in advance!
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@Quaestor Lucis said
"Mr. Eshelman, I have question about SRP of four elements: in what color should one visualize the pentagrams and especially the connecting line? "
I recommend seeing the background in the elemental colors, and the pentagrams on them in the flashing colors, e.g., green on red for Fire.
For the four elements, it gets complicated. Here's where you need to trust your astral senses more than your imagination and, perhaps, try not to be obsessive about transitions. Each quarter thus has a different background color, the line changes color between them etc.; I think it a (minor) mistake to try to force it too extremely, e.g., making sure the room is exact quadrants etc., though often it will turn out this way by the end. Reality gets fuzzy mid-quadrant, but quite acute and concentrated at the quarters where the pentagrams appear.