Exploring the Qliphoth
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@Cygnus said
"Aha! OK, that makes sense. Although still a bit odd to me since the Intelligences and Spirits seem like such individualized entities in practice (IMO by the time you get down to Spirit on the power chain, you're already in a kind of "debased" or rather NON-intelligent version of the energy). But I can see how that would work."
If they have any actual relationship to the Path, then they are under the jurisdiction of the higher names. You're just keeping "chain of command" intact.
"Also, if I wanted to call up a path or sphere and explore EVERY nook and cranny of that SOB, it would make sense to just use the power chain and scry every individual segment all the way down to the Qliphoth."
To explore every crook and nanny, you'd need several lifetimes.
If you haven't already established a solid relationship with the higher beings ruling a Path (such as its archangels), or if you don't have a ready on-demand conscious relationship with your HGA, it's seems extremely foolish to do anything with the Q'lippoth - so, yes, establish the other relationships first, then get some general experience of evocation of the lower Yetziratic manifestations (Intelligence & Spirit)... and make all of those prerequisite to going even lower.
"But then, of course, I'd have to explore it using the power chains in all four worlds, wouldn't I? Good lord that would take forever... Although one wonders if trying to "astrally" explore something above Yetzirah wouldn't really work?"
Yes, to Four Worlds.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"If you haven't already established a solid relationship with the higher beings ruling a Path (such as its archangels), or if you don't have a ready on-demand conscious relationship with your HGA, it's seems extremely foolish to do anything with the Q'lippoth - so, yes, establish the other relationships first, then get some general experience of evocation of the lower Yetziratic manifestations (Intelligence & Spirit)... and make all of those prerequisite to going even lower. "
Which would suggest that this level of work would be, like, an Adeptus Major or Adeptus Exemptus jam?
FWIW, I did extensive work with the Qliphoth and sex magick when first starting out and fucked myself for years, so... yeah. Looking to handle with like three hazmat suits on.
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@Cygnus said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"If you haven't already established a solid relationship with the higher beings ruling a Path (such as its archangels), or if you don't have a ready on-demand conscious relationship with your HGA, it's seems extremely foolish to do anything with the Q'lippoth - so, yes, establish the other relationships first, then get some general experience of evocation of the lower Yetziratic manifestations (Intelligence & Spirit)... and make all of those prerequisite to going even lower. "Which would suggest that this level of work would be, like, an Adeptus Major or Adeptus Exemptus jam?"
A lot of the deeper work with the Q'lippoth is, indeed, the special area of the Adeptus Major; and the HGA link, of course, is at least Adeptus Minor. But I included an "or." The Neophyte should be establishing a solid relationship with the guardians of each of the Paths, especially the archangels etc.
"FWIW, I did extensive work with the Qliphoth and sex magick when first starting out and {******} myself for years, so... yeah. Looking to handle with like three hazmat suits on."
Your prudence is admirable. I think people miss the point that this isn't where you start - it's more like the final area to explore.
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Thanks
At this point what I'm basically trying to establish is a full map. No doing extensive work with beings, no evocation, no asking for favors, no accepting gifts. I have a pretty good and balanced personal map of the Serpent Path in practice and I'm looking to map out the Qliphothic zones to have the necessary counterbalance. As in, I want to know where Rwanda is on the map and see what it looks like, but I don't want to go shopping for cheap rugs there. But even this, I suspect, at early levels, may be asking too much?
To what extent should one's map be extended while in the lower grades, pre-K&C?
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@Cygnus said
"At this point what I'm basically trying to establish is a full map."
My sense is that an initial "full map" means having checked out more or less all parts, but not necessarily in any depth. One can (and will) then go back many times. - Kind of like having a friend drive you around L.A. on your first visit, and show you the lay of the land and some highlights, but without stopping and checking anything out too much.
The initial task is to be able to "get out" - to awaken your senses, at will, to the Yetziratic level and "travel" where you will. Once that ability is well-honed, you have much latitude in where you go.
Also, in terms of "the full map," please understand that you'll only be able to trust your impressions on a tiny bit of it. Much of the Tree isn't assimilable until you reach a grade proximate to that "area." You can get impressions, sure... and you can "take the tour" ... but one risk is that you'll take what you experience seriously and start creating some sort of doctrine or coming to some sort of conclusions from it. This can be a bitch to overcome in later years. For this reason, most people spend most of their time in the lower parts of the Tree, or focussing on the elements, etc. - striving for the most authenticity of experience in areas they realistically reach and assimilate. (I'm not telling you what to do - just throwing out some thoughts.)
"No doing extensive work with beings"
But Q'lippoth are "beings" in much the same sense as, say, angels or spirits... so, if you follow your stated plan, you'd be working quite a lot with beings!
"I have a pretty good and balanced personal map of the Serpent Path in practice and I'm looking to map out the Qliphothic zones to have the necessary counterbalance."
You act like this is something different than "the Serpent Path." It isn't. I'm not quite sure what you're doing, but you keep coming up with things that sound like your divorcing the Q'lippoth fromn the rest of the Tree as some sort of separate framework. if so, that's a conceptual error. Same Tree, same areas, etc.
"To what extent should one's map be extended while in the lower grades, pre-K&C?"
The main thing is to be able to "get out" and explore, reliably and at will, in general. Besides that, there isn't a particular rule. For formal testing of someone in the A.'.A.'. curriculum, I would refer the Neophyte to his or her Zelator for this exact question. For someone not following that program, I'd suggest getting your basic grounding, and go after the details as your work necessitates or prompts.
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The drive around LA—that's it exactly, yes.
"You act like this is something different than "the Serpent Path." It isn't. I'm not quite sure what you're doing, but you keep coming up with things that sound like your divorcing the Q'lippoth fromn the rest of the Tree as some sort of separate framework. if so, that's a conceptual error. Same Tree, same areas, etc."
Actually, this is the opposite of what I'm doing—I'm trying to integrate the Qliphoth into the conceptual whole. It's just that I'm holding them at arm's length with a latex glove on. During my initial run I worked through the "basic tour" of the paths and Sephiroth, without directly engaging their Qliphothic aspects. I'm looking to correct that now (but only IF applicable at this point), by extending my "drive around LA" to the bad parts of the city now that I'm confident I know how to keep the doors locked!
Specifically, I'm trying to round out and complete the conceptual framework. Having only the data on the Sephiroth and Paths without understanding the Qliphothic aspect feels unbalanced to me.
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@Cygnus said
"Specifically, I'm trying to round out and complete the conceptual framework. Having only the data on the Sephiroth and Paths without understanding the Qliphothic aspect feels unbalanced to me."
Despite what you say, I'd like you to look closely at your language use: The sentence structure above acts as if "the Sephiroth and Paths" is something different from "the Qliphothic [sic] aspect."
Besides that... as you wish. I might remind you, though, of the teaching from the Vision of the 6th Aethyr: that they who seek only Beauty come nearest to the heart of Truth.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Besides that... as you wish. I might remind you, though, of the teaching from the Vision of the 6th Aethyr: that they who seek only Beauty come nearest to the heart of Truth."
Fascinating.
And definitely taken seriously. I lost a significant chunk of my young life from taking "Nightside of Eden" and related lines of inquiry at face value. As I rebuild the temple I'm confronted with two options: re-assess the Qliphoth in a mature way, and ultimately re-balance them, or continue to ignore them completely.
You seem to be suggesting that the latter is the way to go!
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I'm not saying ignore them... one should be mindful of them. But that doesn't mean one necessarily has to do anything with them directly most of the time.
We don't usually have much trouble giving expression to the pettiest aspects of our being. They show up all the time. I think it's hugely important to have a major sense of humor about oneself and one's flaws - and you can't enjoy the ongoing joke unless you're actually open to watching the show, i.e., seeing your own screwed up side when it pops up. This is most of the "dealing with the Q'lippoth" that most people need until way down the Path.
OTOH it isn't my place to tell you what you need in order to attain to the K&C of the HGA. Possibly what you are proposing is precisely what you need, your own way of working through Death & the Devil. But there isn't a single system I know well and respect that gives more than rare attention to doing anything directly with the Q'lippoth until far down the path.
We're good at being small. The work first needs to fix us unflinchingly on our greatness.