The Value of Relaxation
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@magictortoise said
"RobertAllen, i think i understand what you are saying, but to me it goes without saying - its a meditative state, not the one in which you run errands.
That is... there are levels, but if deep relaxation is Theta brainwaves, regular stressed way of being for most is* Betha*, while most who meditate regularly for years do the daily stuff in* Alpha* (i mean its all conditional labeling, but can't think of better one right now.)
So while you can't possibly drive being in Theta , in Alpha you can - i mean, i can.
"MT, I'm not sure what you are saying relative to my post, but I had the following thoughts after reading yours:
Odd, you don't hear much about Alpha, Delta, Theta these days. I remember when it was all the rage. People thought this "science" would produce mystical experiences in and of itself—it didn't.
Stare at anything long enough and it will fall apart—St. Paul was riding a horse when god knocked him from his saddle with a blinding white light. Clearly trance states can happen to anyone engaged in almost any type of physical activity.
I wonder what Greek letter is appropriate for the brain wave activity of a person at a Bull Fight?
Love and Will
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Kappa Tau
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@Tinman said
"Kappa Tau"
hehe!
Actually I was trying to do a transliteration thing for Ole, but alas, I am out of my depth. Apart from the odd, and mostly random thought that I should really learn the Greek Alphabet, which is still somewhere on my 'to do' list, I have no idea what letters would serve.
Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
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MT, I'm not sure what you are saying relative to my post, but I had the following thoughts after reading yours:
"Well, that's how i understood for myself your post - sorry if i oversaw that somewhere out there was is a single canonized way to interpret it.
"Odd, you don't hear much about Alpha, Delta, Theta these days. I remember when it was all the rage."
I am not sure what you are referring at. I wouldn't know how states of mind -some innate some developed - but still, inherent in the human consciousness, can cause rage.
To me it sounds like raging over the fact that we have two legs or one head or whatever.
" People thought this "science" would produce mystical experiences in and of itself—it didn't."
Sorry, i am not following you.
I am referring to my own experiences so i don't have a clue to which 'science' you are referring , what were people's or your own expectations there and how those were different from the actual results (nor i knew that mystical experiences were ever conducted under institutionalized scientific patronage - that must have been heaps of fun.)"Stare at anything long enough and it will fall apart—St. Paul was riding a horse when god knocked him from his saddle with a blinding white light.
Clearly trance states can happen to anyone engaged in almost any type of physical activity.
"I can't relate to the above example, i am not familiar with the Christian Bible to that extent.
Anyway, do dismiss my previous post as a non-related in any way to yours.
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@magictortoise said
"
"Stare at anything long enough and it will fall apart—St. Paul was riding a horse when god knocked him from his saddle with a blinding white light.Clearly trance states can happen to anyone engaged in almost any type of physical activity.
"I can't relate to the above example, i am not familiar with the Christian Bible to that extent.
Anyway, do dismiss my previous post as a non-related in any way to yours."
No way, this is way too interesting to just drop!
@magictortoise said
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@RobertAllen said
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MT, I'm not sure what you are saying relative to my post, but I had the following thoughts after reading yours:
"Well, that's how i understood for myself your post - sorry if i oversaw that somewhere out there was is a single canonized way to interpret it.
"Odd, you don't hear much about Alpha, Delta, Theta these days. I remember when it was all the rage."
I am not sure what you are referring at. I wouldn't know how states of mind -some innate some developed - but still, inherent in the human consciousness, can cause rage.
To me it sounds like raging over the fact that we have two legs or one head or whatever."
I'm old you see. Probably as old, if not older than you. The curse of Saturn and the irritable old person be upon me! But getting back to what is quoted above: that's how you understood my post? How? How did you understand it so I can trace the thought process? Because I gotta say, it's not obvious to me—I still don't know what you are referring to.
So, in lieu of knowing what I'm talking about: In the early seventies the whole brain wave thing was a big deal, at least here in the states... well, in California anyway.
But in a more contemporary vein 'rage' is more often used to imply a fad. Usage: It's all the rage! And yes, there was a time when the brain wave thing was all the rage! This was in the seventies, or there abouts...
oops, second time I mentioned the seventies thing—must be my alzheimer's kicking in... ...err, just intuit what I mean, okay?
@magictortoise said
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" People thought this "science" would produce mystical experiences in and of itself—it didn't."
Sorry, i am not following you.
I am referring to my own experiences so i don't have a clue to which 'science' you are referring , what were people's or your own expectations there and how those were different from the actual results (nor i knew that mystical experiences were ever conducted under institutionalized scientific patronage - that must have been heaps of fun.) "That's fine. No problem at my end. I respect personal experiences. Those work for you. They don't work for me. But yes, it was heaps of fun, I remember it better than the last ten minutes—damn Saturn. Not the mystical experiences thing, but the brain wave thing, and maybe not even that, but to read the drivel being written at that time you would have thought otherwise.
But hey, if you respond, and cite me by name, then plaese point directly to the thing you are responding to, otherwise I can only guess about what you are talking, and I'd rather not. I'm sure you have a valid point to make, I'm just not sure what it is because I don't know what was behind your post—you didn't spell it out.
How are those alpha waves holding up?
Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
":)
So, in lieu of knowing what I'm talking about: In the early seventies the whole brain wave thing was a big deal, at least here in the states... well, in California anyway.
"That's when i was born. In Europe. Anyway.
On occasions cultural differences are so significant that all another discourses and paradigms of meaning are attributed to some, if not all words. Nevertheless, sometimes there can be a parallel in non-verbal experience, and then verbal understanding is possible, especially if there is some kind of desire or will to attain such. I think here at least one of those is lacking, so i really don't see the point of taking the original post further off topic. -
MT, Robert wasn't referring to states of consciousness when he was talking about relaxation. He was talking about not taking off anything from your alertness just because you have the capability to relax. This doesn't have anything to do with lowering or heightening your level of consciousness, relaxedness and alertness are attributes of consciousness, neither being greater or lower than the other.
Well, that's how I interpreted it
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@Vlad said
"MT, Robert wasn't referring to states of consciousness when he was talking about relaxation. He was talking about not taking off anything from your alertness just because you have the capability to relax. This doesn't have anything to do with lowering or heightening your level of consciousness, relaxedness and alertness are attributes of consciousness, neither being greater or lower than the other.
"Hi Vlad! Thanks!
So this is what i meant: the deepest levels of relaxation i experienced i labeled as Theta - those are done sitting (i mean , i do them like that - as the first practice of the kind i learned was Vipassana), there basically all the alertness is turned inwards, to what one experiences inside.
I've never felt such deep states of relaxation out of mediation - except for brief moments, that among Tarot readers are called 'being in the zone' (and most times experienced during readings) - it is a different state... of everything.
You are totally relaxed and at the same time you are perfectly alert.The every-day state of mind (and degree of relaxation) - for most is quite stressed one, that i labeled as Beta.
Btw, mine to a degree depends on the people i am surrounded with.
Where i worked, it was a specific high-responsibility, high-level of stress, public and media oriented job , its difficult to experience any degree of relaxation, if possible at all.
The most influential guys there, in that sphere, couple of them - for whom we were working - and who objectively didn't have a reason to fret as much as the rest of us did (i mean, they had more certainty about things in every case)... what i felt from them was not being relaxed - ever - but being more in control of their own words, body language and so on... like, having calm composure on the outside, but its not the type of calm we are discussing here.There is one state inbetween - that i referred to as Alpha, it is different from the stress and fret of (conditionally labeled *Beta *), but its not the deepest meditative state; its the state when you , for example have done your meditation and after that went running errands.
In that "Alpha" state - you are indeed alert, but at the same time you are relaxed.
That's what i meant.Its indeed difficult to describe* these * - and all the terms we possibly use are conditional.
I mean, what's alertness here?From wiki: alertness is the state of paying close and continuous attention, being watchful and prompt to meet danger or emergency, or being quick to perceive and act.
If you are in a situation of real danger/emergency - like, we had fires here couple of years ago - i think any degree of relaxation is hardly possible because your brain and body signal danger and it does manifest like stress, agitated thoughts, brisk movements and so on... but that's necessary for survival.
Now personally, i am a fatalist - but that's a matter of nature - so i don't really lose it even in such occasions, the thing is that those are rare.
In my own - and those around me - everyday life, there are very few situations which indeed present danger, except for driving maybe.
And yet - most of the folks are not relaxed - and that, i think, has to do with the state of mind, most of all worry.
Its a cultural thing too - where i am in Blakans, all is far more nervous, from what for example i felt in Netherlands - you simply feel different energies/ vibrations from people.I think that its not the level of alertness that changes btw, but our own reaction to impulses - and also - focus/ selection of impulses and stimuli which are paid attention to.
When i am in Alpha, that's quite spontaneous - my attention is drawn to the things and people that (for the lack of better wording) deserve it, while the rest is skipped.Let me give you an example, i think its best that way - two days ago, i gave a lift to a friend who lives at the outskirts of the city; on the way back - as it was late, there wasn't much traffic and there are not that many traffic lights on the way - i was listening to some cool music and i felt deeply relaxed.
I arrived to one of the main crossroads where i need to drive straight - to get to my place, the light was green, so i should basically just have driven through the crossroad...
I felt i should turn left (where there was yellow light and obviously i had to wait for some more.) No rational reason to do so, turning left means taking twice longer road home.
Its seconds we are speaking here. By now i learned to trust that feeling, so i did move to the left and stopped at the traffic light which meanwhile turned red.
In another few seconds - from the other side of the intersection which borders a park - a group of teenagers ran into the crossroad screaming and fighting , they were hitting each other with bottles , someone ended down on the road, others beating him - it looked like a horror - in mere 15 or so meters from me...
The thing is that have i driven straight - the first teenager who ran away from the park most probably would have ended under my wheels.
So, these were things i was talking about. -
I remembered something else - somewhere in 90ies indeed the talk among the so-called spiritual folks here was the use electroencephalogram to measure brain waves during meditation... for what i remember that indeed didn't have real scientific back up (in terms of conducting experiences and analyzing the received results by scientifically recognized methods ) ; that's still filed as pseudo-science by academia and mostly used by various mediation instructors to make their talk sound more scientific...
Like, a Tarot reader can sometimes resort to Jungian terminology (i do), when you need to make it sound less as divination and/or magick... but Tarot is not about that.The conditional labeling that i used - is adopted from Silva ultramind method, once called Silva mind control.
I did their training long time ago (20y ago or so) and i remember back than i found it most valuable as a method to enhance my reading skills; how they describe or explain Alpha, Beta, Theta within their own thing -i don't really remember.
I could also use Vipassana jargo - they'd put it as anna-panna, vipassana and metta-bhavana - various states of relaxation achieved by various techniques(at least in the tradition i practiced) , where respectively 1st is done by breathing consciousness, 2nd by observing bodily sensations and 3d includes visualization and blessings;
or any other system of reference per that matter ,
we could call those A.B.C or Aleph/Bet/Gimel - anyway all of these 'labels' are conditional. -
Aghhh!!!! I see where is the confusion
I MISPOSTED!!!!!!!! Mine was related to this discussion: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8299">viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8299</a><!-- l -->
Lol, i thought i was posting there - and i was surprised at the turn of the replies!!! OMG!!!