The new Aeon
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"did a change occur in the paths between Malkuth and Tiphareth that has resulted in there no longer being a need for ascetic methods employed in the previous Aeon? "
I think Edward's point was about the role of ascetic methods in the old aeon. Since the prime work for most humans was to develop and stabalize Ruach (rational) consciousness, Nephesh (sub)consciousness was often stamped down to prevent it from pulling us back into a previous state of consciousness.
It's not that there could be no use or need for ascetic methods. Just that ascetism to deny the self, and maintain rigid ego control of our entire existence is not really necessary or even a good thing for most people any more.
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""We don't have to keep taking that class on Ego. We passed. We do ego good. Time for the next class.""
Ok, now we may be closing in on something that could shed some light for me. When you say, "We don't have to keep taking that class on Ego.", in what way were the dying gods a class, or instruction on Ego? Now that that phase of learning is complete and "We do ego good.", how do we make use of this tool in the new Aeon and what do we begin working on in the new Aeon that surpasses the Ego?
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(Not trying to answer your question in Jim's place, but adding some thoughts)
Are you familiar with the basic Christian themes of Jesus on the Cross? What message does the standard story line teach us?
The adult god-man (ego) dies, and is resurrected, and if you follow the rules or accept that sacrifice there's hope for your ego to live on too. -
@kerlem93 said
"When you say, "We don't have to keep taking that class on Ego.", in what way were the dying gods a class, or instruction on Ego?"
The Osiris Aeon marked the emergence of Ruach, or ego-consciousness - the emergent distinction of the individual from the herd. (Wasn't that covered in the article to which I pointed you?)
This maturation is a distinctly solar development. The Sun became the projection-object of religions and other inner paths of development. The Sun was seen as passing through a daily cycle of rising, coming to its fullness, and dying. This looked like the course of human life. Humanity created gods that could take it one step further and actual "rise again" like the Sun. - The comparison to the phallus (which rises, dies, then rises again) was, of course, also emphasized. - Humanity divinized the ideal of the rise-set-rerise behavior of the Sun as part of the process of identifying its evolutionary self with the Sun - of pushing the development of the solar part of the psyche, the ego-center.
"Now that that phase of learning is complete and "We do ego good.", how do we make use of this tool in the new Aeon and what do we begin working on in the new Aeon that surpasses the Ego?"
For your first question - that's the domain, first, of psychology (the field that explores and assists the fully functional, healthy manifestation of an adult ego structure, among other things). On spiritual matters, I couldn't answer that first question adequately without writing a somewhat lengthy treatise on the whole course of initiation - It's something one learns, for example, in Temple of Thelema over the course of several degrees (and, correspondingly, several years of life).
Drop your words "in the new Aeon" in that first sentence and see your question for its simpler form: How do we make use of a mature, healthy developed ego? That's the practical question. - From an initiatic p.o.v., part of the end-of-the-road answer (and the reason for calling it a "tool") is that the ego isn't really what we are. It's one layer of us. We need to develop it to its fullness, but in the healthiest and most effective way possible. In time, when our development shifts our p.o.v. to a deeper level, we'll recognize the ego as just another garment - not all that different from a well-learned skill - something we can bring into play to accomplish our real purposes.
As for your second question: Well, that's what the schools of initiation are all about. To state it differently: The species overall will develop this naturally in the centuries to come. Some of us, though, are impatient with natural evolution and want to push the issue, and for that there have been developed ways of training that stabilize the present gains and push the emerging capacities.
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@kerlem93 said
"In 777 Crowley never explicitly assigns any of the corresponding Tiphareth figures to different Aeons. The main point of the work of correlating all the information in 777 appears to be (aside from being a reference book for practical work) to show that in many times and in many cultures there were numerous figures that represent the same thing."
The main purpose of 777 was to use the 32 Paths of the Tree of Life as a cataloging method for showing cognate ideas, or those with related themes, across a wide range of religions, philosophies, and other systems.
And, while that goal wouldn't tend to take him down the path of talking about aeon-differentiation, this is even more the case because, when 777 was written, Crowley had lost The Book of the Law manuscript and was actively avoiding the book and the ideas in it.
"The dying god formula represents death and resurrection only to the onlookers. But to one that attains to the resurrection stage, it becomes clear that the Sun is always shining, that death is as a shadow that fades with the coming of the light and that duality was dependent upon that shadow which, once dispelled, no longer has power over perception."
Yes, but all of those symbols are for those who haven't yet reached this realization. Those who attain to (and mature in) Tiphereth mostly don't continue to worship solar ideas. It's actually a little startling (and rather captivating) to see how quickly (even in the middle of the 5=6 ritual itself) these ideas rotate to where Binah archetypes start pulling one almost at once. Horus is the visible object of worship - for the masses - but, once the K&C is attained, the path forward is a winding route that eventually (in one life or another) terminates at the shore of the Abyss.
"The main reason for making such a big point of wiping away the old names was to assist in moving humanity into a new, previously esoteric, understanding. The way that Crowley did that was by proclaiming a new age, with a new name, so that the baggage (the exoteric understanding that was predominant in the old Aeon) could be let go of along with the old names. Would you agree, or am I still missing a key piece somewhere?"
Your words imply that this was a conscious plan by Crowley. If that's what you mean, then I definitely disagree. It was thrust on him. He fought against it. It was Liber Legis that proclaimed these things, not Crowley - until he took up the task of pushing Liber Legis.
There are other things you've written above with which I wouldn't exactly disagree, but OTOH would not say the same way. I don't know that in your mind they miss the point, but I think they run a risk of being understood by others in a way that would lead them to miss the point. For example, I'm not sure of the purpose of saying that the new formulations "was to assist in moving humanity into a new, previously esoteric, understanding." I'd say, more simply, that it was time to drop roads original built to lead us to terrain we've now moved past, so that new roads were needed. (Toys to help a three-year-old expand language skills may still be of some limited value to a 9-year-old but, in general, need to be put away and a new set of toys and techniques is needed - since the whole species is older and more mature overall than it was even a short while ago.)
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"The adult god-man (ego) dies, and is resurrected, and if you follow the rules or accept that sacrifice there's hope for your ego to live on too."
Yes, I'm familiar with that type of coercion. I think it was an exoteric understanding of the dying god formula, but I don't think that is what would have been taught by someone that had achieved the resurrection stage of that formula. It's hard to say. From the little that I have been able to gather about the subject, there are various "moods" of devotion, as they are described in yogic terms.
From: www.workofthechariot.com/TextFiles/Practices-Moods.html - "The moods of the yoga of devotion to Small Face (name your diety here) vary. Some devotees may have a strong emotional sense of being creatures in the Lord YHVH’s (or any other Small Face Chosen Ideal) dream-universe. Others may feel like servants of the Lord YHVH the Master; or like the Lord YHVH’s dear friend, sister, or brother; or like the Lord YHVH’s wife, or husband, or secret paramour."
So maybe the mood that you described may work as a spiritual practice for some and maybe it is even aimed at an audience that is in a stage of their spiritual development where that is the only type of practice they are capable of. The problem with it is that we don't know who's rules they are. There is too much room for the possibility that those rules originated from some other persons poor interpretation of what they "think" you are supposed to do as opposed to being of any true, divine origin. If it said something like, "Raise yourself up that you may be able to know the true Will of your higher god-man self, then you may be brought to the accomplishment of the Great Work and marvel that the symbols of resurrection were a foretelling of your own.", then I could probably go along with it.
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"For example, I'm not sure of the purpose of saying that the new formulations "was to assist in moving humanity into a new, previously esoteric, understanding." I'd say, more simply, that it was time to drop roads original built to lead us to terrain we've now moved past, so that new roads were needed."
The point of saying that was because, my interpretation is that the dying god formula does not lead us to terrain that we have now moved past. We may have moved past the terrain that an exoteric understanding of the formula pointed to, but we haven't moved past the terrain that it has always represented to the few who were already far ahead on the path. The "terrain" that the dying god formula really represents (I'm postulating...) is the full terrain of the divine dying god's own journey from Kether to Malkuth and back to Kether. That means **your ** (I'm emphasizing 'your' because it isn't about duality as in you **and **I. I could have just as well said I, but it's not **both **as in two things.) journey, not the journey of a dead idol hanging on a wall. The key point that takes this idea from an exoteric understanding to an esoteric one (...that most people, especially in the old Aeon, wouldn't have been aware of unless they were undergoing special training...) is that the dying god is not just an idol to be gawked at and worshiped, it's something you DO, it's something you are **already **doing; well, at least the resurrecting part, because we have already completed the first part of descending from Life into the womb/tomb of our mother. It is the formula of the breath of life, the in and out of the Flaming Sword, the phallus that is the dying god (You) descending into Mother/illusion and returning to Father/truth. Manifesting in Malkuth represents the midpoint. What lies ahead is the great return, or the resurrection.
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@kerlem93 said
"The point of saying that was because, my interpretation is that the dying god formula does not lead us to terrain that we have now moved past."
Got it. I now understand your position.
I disagree with it for the most part, but do now understand what you're saying.
"We may have moved past the terrain that an exoteric understanding of the formula pointed to, but we haven't moved past the terrain that it has always represented to the few who were already far ahead on the path."
These formulae were never for those who have already attained but, rather, for those who haven't. They are well-paved roadways. When someone truly attainsone of these main plateaus, they routinely move on to a different formula in most cases.
"The "terrain" that the dying god formula really represents (I'm postulating...) is the full terrain of the divine dying god's own journey from Kether to Malkuth and back to Kether."
Yeah, that's where I think you're all off track. It was never about that. It was about realizing the solar mystery.
That doesn't mean that it can't be applied to someone who wants to hold onto an old formula. But saying it can be applied is different from saying it applies.
"The key point that takes this idea from an exoteric understanding to an esoteric one (...that most people, especially in the old Aeon, wouldn't have been aware of unless they were undergoing special training...) is that the dying god is not just an idol to be gawked at and worshiped, it's something you DO, it's something you are **already **doing; well, at least the resurrecting part, because we have already completed the first part of descending from Life into the womb/tomb of our mother."
The whole idea of death and resurrection is a tired, past formula. The new formula is one of the eternally borning.
"It is the formula of the breath of life, the in and out of the Flaming Sword, the phallus that is the dying god (You) descending into Mother/illusion and returning to Father/truth. Manifesting in Malkuth represents the midpoint. What lies ahead is the great return, or the resurrection."
Yeah, don't think so. This is part of what I meant about you making it way too complicated. The need to substantiate a variant theory of something by a complex metaphysic should always alert us to the possibility that it's all blather.
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"Got it. I now understand your position.
I disagree with it for the most part, but do now understand what you're saying. "
Ok, that's good. Now you must have an idea of what I'm missing.
"When someone truly attains one of these main plateaus, they routinely move on to a different formula in most cases."
That's what I'm trying to understand. What the new formula is and what it implies.
"It was about realizing the solar mystery."
Ok, what is realized?
"That doesn't mean that it can't be applied to someone who wants to hold onto an old formula."
I don't want to hold onto it if I can gain a broader perspective. I would be the first one to be as giddy as a little kid if I could get something to click and I could see a wider horizon.
"The whole idea of death and resurrection is a tired, past formula. The new formula is one of the eternally borning."
Well how did we get here then? into a position where we need to climb back up the tree if a death and decent into the womb didn't occur? We are always borning if we don't remember the fall and all we see on each cycle is the returning.
"Yeah, don't think so. This is part of what I meant about you making it way too complicated. The need to substantiate a variant theory of something by a complex metaphysic should always alert us to the possibility that it's all blather."
Complicated? People spend 20 years studying Qabala. How many books did Crowley alone write about all this? How many books could you fill on the subject? I would love it if you could take the two sentences that you highlighted as complicated and turn them around into a simple, understandable, correct statement. I'm not saying that it wouldn't still need the direct experience of these things to mean so much more, but there must be some way to at least put the concepts into a concise statement. I know I must be frustrating, but I'm a person a fair intelligence. There must be some way that I can get what the alternative, "correct" understanding is, into my head.
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Nowadays, 3rd graders are taught that the sun "setting" is really the earth revolving, and that the seasons are from the tilt of the earth. They don't really partake of the "mystery" of the dying sunlight every night, or during the winter solstice, because it's not a mystery anymore.
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"3rd graders are taught that the sun "setting" is really the earth revolving, and that the seasons are from the tilt of the earth. They don't really partake of the "mystery" of the dying sunlight every night, or during the winter solstice, because it's not a mystery anymore."
True, but how did we get in a position where we are reascending the tree unless we are going through a rebirth process right now due to a previous death phase?
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I agree that it is no longer a mystery to those who can intellectually comprehend that the sun is always shining, and even less so for those that can experience it directly, but doesn't the fact that we didn't know this previously, and that now we do (or, for some of us, we are only starting to), imply that a death, a decent into unknowing occurred, something that divided us from truth, and now we are in a phase of returning to truth from illusion, delusion, confusion, unknowing, whatever you want to call it?
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@kerlem93 said
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"When someone truly attains one of these main plateaus, they routinely move on to a different formula in most cases."That's what I'm trying to understand. What the new formula is and what it implies. "
Horus is the visible object of worship - suitable especially for mass religion and for those aspirants who have not attained to Tiphereth. (There are, of course, those for whom he is a direct expression of their personal, non-generic godhead idea - the best expression of Ishvara for them - but, for others, he's the ideal Plain Wrap Generic.)
Thus far up to Tiphereth.
When the initiation of Tiphereth has been achieved and stabilized, there is (pretty reliably - possibly universally) a natural reorientation to the next threshold, which is Binah (or, the Abyss as the last large ordeal before Binah). This generally appears in female ideas - as a reorientation to Nuit, or as Babalon herself, or as Gimel wherein the Adept actually had the experience of the Angel, or as Gimel (GML) as expressing itself and the Mem and Lamed that are the Next Step from Tiphereth to Geburah, or... all sorts of things. But it tends to take the form of this general trend, either in the later stages of Tiphereth or, especially, once the step to Geburah engages.
"We are always borning if we don't remember the fall and all we see on each cycle is the returning."
Interesting choice of symbol - since the Fall, primarily, represents the start of the Osiris Aeon - the emergence of Ruach, or egoic self-consciousness, to succeed the 'Garden' stage of only Nephesh, or subconsciousness, being awake.
"I would love it if you could take the two sentences that you highlighted as complicated and turn them around into a simple, understandable, correct statement."
If I have time later today or this evening, I'll try to do that for you. - If I don't get to it, it's because I have long work days and, this week, am entirely rebuilding my computer system at home - one of those "no time to look up" periods.
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"True, but how did we get in a position where we are reascending the tree unless we are going through a rebirth process right now due to a previous death phase?"
We still have day and night. We just learn that the Sun continues shining and life doesn't stop because of these issues of "perspective".
We still have birth and death. But it doesn't mean that Life stops because of these issues of "perspective".Like in the movie "The Lion King" where children are taught that we are all a part of something called the "circle of life". That Life continues as an uninterrupted cycle.
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@kerlem93 said
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"3rd graders are taught that the sun "setting" is really the earth revolving, and that the seasons are from the tilt of the earth. They don't really partake of the "mystery" of the dying sunlight every night, or during the winter solstice, because it's not a mystery anymore."True, but how did we get in a position where we are reascending the tree unless we are going through a rebirth process right now due to a previous death phase?"
This might be a way for me to address the idea you asked me to elucidate. I'll try to do it quickly, and see where that gets us.
Here's the thing: "We" aren't ascending the Tree. Or, at least, it depends on what you mean by "we."
You have been using the traditional involution/evolution cyclical language. It's a really useful metaphor - I used it for years, and still might get caught dragging it out. But I now think it is flawed in the sense that a fairy tale is flawed, even if it extends a useful concept to us.
The involution/evolution idea is (more or less) that we descended into matter, and now we are turning around and heading back up the way we came, back to source.
I offer a different picture; but to understand it, you have to understand that what you truly are isn't the "you" that is doing the ascending. Rather, it's what that particular "you" calls (various things such as) The Light.
That's what you are.
OK, simple picture - I'm using far too many words, but it's a simple picture:
Imagine (to pick a term) the Light (Spirit, God, whatever) existing in the absence of formation or matter. The act of creation is one of stepping the infinite down a few planes to give first creation to physical substance - let's use a rock for our example.
Over millennia, the created circumstances cause this rock to undergo changes - to structurally change - to become some organic structure capable of first sustaining life. As soon as it becomes capable of this, Life flows in. And Life (being the Light), as it flows in, gains even more power to effect changes. Over further millennia, the structure of the living thing evolves, changes - one Life continues to flow through it, passing from generation to generation, as it evolves the structure of the living thing, continually improving the genetic patterns for the specific purpose of enabling greater and greater amounts of Light/Life to inhabit the reproduced structures.
This is all one continuous process of the Light endeavoring to pour itself into Assiah so as to create substance, and pour itself into the substance to vivify it - all with the goal, perhaps, of being One Thing existing "concurrently" on all planes.
In time, this process evolves into humanity, and it keeps on procreating in a way that results in more and more Light/Life incarnating in each generation of the biological structures.
In time, there are humans who are filled with sufficient Light/Life that they develop consciousness that can act as if it is making intentional decisions about participating in this continuous flooding of Light/Life into Assiah. That is, though simply constructs, these self-conscious human animals begin to execute programs that involve them in steps that increase the amount of Light and Life that can flow into them.
At this point, they look like (and experience themselves as) people involved in spiritual growth. But it's really just a more sophisticated version of the process whereby a rock was impacted the spirtual force of which it was already composed so that it structurally changed.
These self-conscious human animals mistake their behavior patterns for a personality, and for evidence that they exist as autonomous beings. In time, some of them undertake steps (or are naturally impacted) such that they become significant receptacles of so much Light that the Light itself becomes self-conscious in them.\
It looks like they were already "people" and that they had undertaken an evolutionary "path of return." But really, it has never stopped being involutionary. The Light is just managing to incarnate itself more thoroughly at each step.
The mechanism of personality that thinks it is a person experiences the influx of Light as something outside itself, with which to join. In fact, it is the same thing of which that 'person' is already composed. In fact, it is what they most truly are. And, as the bend is rounded and Adepthood is stabilized and matures, it is no longer a person who sees that the Angel (or whatever metaphor you prefer) is filling him or her; rather, one recognizes (probably unconsciously at first, the long-known idea taking its time to become a conscious thought) that one has always been the Angel endeavoring to deepen and further one's incarnation and insinuate ever more of oneself into incarnation.
One is ever-borning. There is no return. The process of creating a thing on ever deepening planes, and of inhabiting it ever more, is not two processes, but one - as most artists will tell you: What you make has always been yourself.
As I said - a lot of words - but the concept is simple. It's all one continuous and continuing process.
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@Dar said
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@AvshalomBinyamin said
":o"
"(Not at you--responding to Jim's post with a similar sentiment to yours)
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@Dar said
"I've really enjoyed what you've written to this thread this evening Mr Eshelman. Thank you.
"Why, thank you, Dar'ling.
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I think it's kind of unsightly to be too overly appologetic about saying what you think, so I don't want to do too much of that, but I will say that I am always willing to put a 'maybe' on the tail end of all of this and to put it all back out on the table for reconsideration at any time. The way I look at it, if it is right, it will hold up, if not, then one, or both, or all of us will arrive at something better. I appreciate everyone that has contributed comments on this. It has helped me to think more deeply about these subjects. and I will continue to contemplate all the ideas. With that being said...
"...what you truly are isn't the "you" that is doing the ascending. Rather, it's what that particular "you" calls (various things such as) The Light.
That's what you are.""
The true self is not The Light. The True Self is the source of the light. It is gives the light, but it is not light. How does it give the light? By creating darkness so that the light may be revealed from within it.
"And, as the bend is rounded and Adepthood is stabilized and matures, it is no longer a person who sees that the Angel (or whatever metaphor you prefer) is filling him or her; rather, one recognizes (probably unconsciously at first, the long-known idea taking its time to become a conscious thought) that one has always been the Angel endeavoring to deepen and further one's incarnation and insinuate ever more of oneself into incarnation."
These terms like stability, maturity, seeing; the ability to uncover and reveal the truth about Self, ones true nature; these are all things that one receives. But, to be received, these things were given. How were they given? They were given by potential being created. How was potential created? Potential was created by the creator giving the light away, so that it no longer possessed it. This is how it can receive once again. We may receive these things and we may hold on to them for a long,long time. The Adept may gain the ability to hold on to a continuity of consciousness from lifetime to lifetime as he, or she holds on to the light and this is wonderful, it's not a bad thing. But as one progresses and becomes more and more like the Self once again, like the creator, they will gain more and more of a capacity to give more and more of the light, until, eventually, they give **all **of the light, and they become like a little babe in the womb of darkness again, to be reborn and resurrected and to receive the Light once more. So, maybe in that sense you could say that it is ever-borning because it always returns to be born again.