scrying the right way
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Part of the OBE/Body of light experience as Ophiel said is Scrying.. For those out there that cant scry, How does one scry the proper way? IS there good books, like ophiel's book and is there others?
What advice do you all have on scrying? what instructions, and what methods and rituals helped you to scry?
These threads are a great help to me, and I hope everyone else
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King Solomon -
Do you mean "skrying in the spirit vision," or divinatory skrying?
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Im sorry Jim, "Scrying in the spirit vision".
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There are other threads here already discussing this at some length. The method in Liber O has all the basics IMO, and the fleshed-out Golden Dawn Second Order instructions (including how to approach the matter etc.) fill in the gaps.
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@Kingsolomon said
"Im sorry Jim, "Scrying in the spirit vision"."
I can tell you how I approach it. Keep it naturally as only a point of view, it can work or not work for you too. Anyway:
I follow the first step in Liber O (ED: forgot to add that's much, much easier to do all of this in a darkened roomn for various motives), creating an astral robed figure in front of me (and looking at me, also if a little above, because standing while I'm sitting). When I can reach a somewhat vivid 3D look of it and it becomes "solid" then I just feel myself there (switching the spatial perspective around, twisting my normal p.o.v, this usually makes me feel already in another place). When I'm a little accustomed there (sometimes I jump back and forth for a while, sometimes it happens immediately, sometimes I cannot do it at all, it depends) then I start looking.
Here "looking" it is a little tricky. The thing that can happen is that you try to use the physical eyes to look at the blackness behind the eyelids and this could prevent you from seeing anything (it depends, if you are relaxed after a while the physical eyes "shut" by themselves anyway and/or if the "transfer" is done well it happens by itself, automatically). The advice I can give you is to start pretending that your physical eyes receives impression no more (maybe by going a little forward with the focus or "releasing" them up - as you do when you go to sleep) and pretend you should look the room (if nothing comes then try to imagine it a bit, but don't focus on having all details, let the impressions come by themselves mostly). It works much better if you can have your mind blank while you do this, all it is much easier (if you cannot do it then you can try with a mantra or similar to not have your conscious mind and your doubts/expectations block the process; I usually do a little of "clearing thoughts" before starting).
One thing I discovered is important at this point (and that really makes you feel you are there) is that there should be a sort of spatial perspective in what you perceive. For example: if you look at the room there should be a sense of the distance in it, it should not be "all in your face" and flat as it can be a TV screen (you can work also in that way, naturally, but it will not have the same impact).
When you can have a somewhat clear impression of the room behind your physical from that p.o.w (for me the impressions are somewhat "transparent" and 3D like, as I said, and they have a sort of white/light at the point I'm now) then try to look at your physical body. The first times you will try it you will immediately think of your physical body and either jump in there immediately, so, if this last happens, begin everything from the start. When you can succesfully have impressions of your physical without thinking of it and checking it then you are ready to try to look around and receive impression from all the room. (Naturally you can do all of this in steps - i.e. one time practice the "transfer", when you are somewhat good at it practice the "looking" etc. - in fact I've done it this way, and not all in the same practice because it took a while for me to accustom to every single point).
From there you can do what you want to do, as creating a door with a symbol in it or either impress it in the door in your room, pass it, use the appropriate names to call the vision etc. I still have a little problems on feeling that "body" fully, but I don't mind it.
If the impressions you receive at beginning are vague don't worry, they were for me also at first and they are becoming better as I keep at it. The same don't worry too much if you seem to receive impressions that are not in perfect prospective at first (as things looking farther or closer etc) or they are exactly as your room is (I either found out that sometimes I received an impression of a thing that was in a place the day before, for example) they are not the details that are important (or at last for me) but the "general" impression.
This is for what it concerns having a "body" in there. If you just want to receive impressions as in a screen, everything it's even easier, but you usually need a symbol or an invocation (or similar) to start with (or at last I know no other way) and then, when you feel you are "linked", simply start receiving impressions (they will be flat and maybe a little above or not centered, but it depends). The symbol can be used as a "window" (on where the impression starts) or it can vanish totally to become something else (or many other things).
And this is how I do it (I usually practice only the "traveling" now, but when I was younger I did only the "skrying", and used a medium usually, because knew no other way). I also think that skrying can lead to traveling in the long run, because before I took a break from it I started receiving impressions similar to what I receive now when I practice the above, so you can try to start with it if you cannot have a full perspective in there.
As I said it can work for you or not. It can even be that it can (in fact) hinder you. However maybe, since I'm a beginner, something will be similar since we are in the same boat.
EDIT: You can either check "A short course in skrying" by Benjamin Rowe that gives similar steps with a different flavor (he begins by imagining a scene "flat" then, when good at it, putting a "body" in there), or "Crystal Vision through Cristal Gazing" by Achad for skryng with a medium.
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@Lavir said
"... then try to look at your physical body. The first times you will try it you will immediately think of your physical body and either jump in there immediately, so, if this last happens, begin everything from the start. When you can succesfully have impressions of your physical without thinking of it and checking it then you are ready to try to look around and receive impression from all the room. "
Just a personal note that might be of use to someone else. I have found at this point in the process—looking and relating to my physical form—the most, best way to really solidify the astral point of view is to touch the physical. If I am having any uncertainty at this stage, or I am struggling, I just walk up to my body seated in the chair, usually to one side or the other, and place my astral hand on the shoulder of my physical body. I find that this simple act will quell most instability—I am there, with my hand on the shoulder of my body, and I feel the fabric, the warmth of my body, the muscle and bone creating the shape of the shoulder, etc...
My next step is to step around, positioning myself directly behind and above the body, both hands on both shoulders, looking down at the top of my head, and then adjusting my focus out and about the room.
Love and Will
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I think that the most important part on learning how to do it at first is to go with what you are better at in the beginning, and then by and by start working on adding all the senses.
Since I'm good at visual stimuli I did put the major emphasis on it. So seeing the physical and the room, etc., but others people can be different than me, naturally.
So you can accustom the technique at first to what you are better and then work on other points. For example if you are good at keeping a spatial perspective around (or having kinesthetic sensations from the "body") then, instead of immediately trying to "look", after the transfer (and when you are somewhat stable in that other perspective), you could for example do the LBRP in that body (I've tried it once and it worked very good also for me that I'm not so strong in it as I'm visualizing, so I imagine that it would work perfectly for someone good there). That is very good an excercize because you have to do gestures, utter words (so either "hearing" your voice in there) travel around etc.
When you feel somewhat "stable" then try to look (the tracing of the Tau, pentagrams/archangels etc. should already have started the process, btw, and you can either already receive impressions of the circle you have created) or try to touch things or any similar thing.
Every sense you bring in the "body" further makes you tied with it. So, in this case, starting from kinesthetic/spatial, then you can follow with trying to incorporate touching in there, then hearing, then visualizing and so on, depending on what you are better and what makes you "merge" with that body by and by. The LBRP, in the above example, already does all of this for you, adding spatial, hearing, touch and visual stimuli by and by, so I think it's a very good way to start with if you aren't so good at visualizing from beginning.
Btw, if I remember correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong), this is the same advice (of doing the LBRP in there if you have problems with it) Regardie gave in "The Tree of Life".
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93 all
Thank you for that information. I've obtained the Regardie big black book of the golden dawn. In the pages of 600's it talks about scrying and astral vision and travel.. And gives percise rituals, so Mr. Eshelman was right. but I think Scrying is a patience game, which doing magick for a few years now, which i've learned.. So I got a black mirror and i got to put in the time.. I think thats why it's important to be disciplined and have concentration and patience.. the reward is congress with the desired spirit and your will and wishes answered..
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King