Astral (etheric) projection
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Most of the people (from various paths) that I've talked to have adamantly said "No" a person can not go OB and be physically seen. Only one man I talked to said yes, but with reservations. He said that if the viewers were in a semi inbetween state themselves they might be able to see someones etheric form.
Whatever the case, when I was little I would go out nightly and could function just as lucidly as when awake... and one night my parents caught me doing it. They were watching t.v. when they saw movement in my room. They watched as I got up, put on my robe, and then walked through my fathers locked study room door. A few minutes later I went back to my room and got into bed. They were hugely traumatized! In return they made sure to traumatize me into never doing it again. And that ended my ability to go out at will.
Now as an adult I'll go out 'accidently' once in a while, so I set up triggers for myself so I don't get confused about whether or not I'm wearing a body. I still can't do it on purpose though.
It's fascinating to see the world from that perspective. Your slightly ahead in time when in that state. Also, when you look at yourself in the mirror you find that your reflection moves opposite to how it would in the waking world. Fun stuff!
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Wow interesting stuff, but its seems you were seen then!
I also believe Crowley has described tomes when a "double" of his, his body of light was seen and even had tea with others who later said he looked as real and solid as anyone else. I believe this story was in his autobiography.
Anyway sounds like you have had some interesting encounters with this too! I'm especially curious why the reflection moves in reverse! That usual with everyone?
Thank you very much for your answer!
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Witch-walking, here:
fffrrrummmp.blogspot.com/2011/10/halloween-haibun.html
not quite the same thing, but it is a true story - not out of the body as much as in mine and in his at he same time, not seen, but 'felt'? What my grand-dad meant by 'never do that again', who knows!?
SteveM
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@Daegal said
"I'm especially curious why the reflection moves in reverse! That usual with everyone?
Thank you very much for your answer!
93"
Honestly, I have no idea. I could hazard a guess that maybe the various vibrational levels are similar to lenses that each flip or reverse images? I know that I've seen words or symbols projected from the astral/etheric (?) level to the physical and they are usually backward.
I've had a couple people tell me that they have witnessed the same thing with their mirror reflection while out of body. They didn't have any explanation for it though.
If anyone out there has any technical insight into why this happens and they are willing to share, please do! I would love to set up controlled experiments with OB on the etheric if I could ever get consistant with it again.
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There is the story of Maxwell Knight who, along with several other members of British Intelligence, were attempting to learn to project under the tutelage of Aleister Crowley : one story has it that one evening Maxwell's mistress* went into their bedroom and was startled to find knight standing by the bedroom window and lying on the bed. . .
SteveM
*MI5 Agent Joan Miller
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93SteveM!
It is very interesting that AC allegedly tutored British Intelligence agents in astral projection. Bi-location is a phenomena assosiated with this magickal art. Just for interest here is a link to Padre Pio the franciscan monk who is recorded as being able to project or bi-locate.
www.ewtn.com/padrepio/mystic/bilocation.htm
'Projection of consciousness' or 'Out of Body Experiences' (OoBE) is an art and a science that can be learned by a dedicated student of the occult sciences. A working understanding of the divisions of consciousness as rediscovered by modern psychology is essential. Also a 'hands on' practical study of the electro-magnetic and psycho-active qualities of the human auric system will prove singularly helpful.
Galzu
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I wonder if records/diaries of Crowley's and Leila Waddell's astral projection experiments still exist?
I suspect Leila was also involved with intelligence and she had a role with Crowley in Russia (their theatrical manager in Russia was a spy runner) and in establishing his pro-Irish / German sypmathies during his stay in America (such as his throwing away his passport stunt). Leila's uncle (Lieutenant Colonel Laurence Augustine Waddell, of Glasgow) was an intelligence officer and she went to America on his business (as a rare violin collector and dealer).
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@gmugmble said
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@RhiH said
"Most of the people (from various paths) that I've talked to have adamantly said "No" a person can not go OB and be physically seen."
My only real paranormal experience was a spontaneous OBE where I was seen."Oh good, the stats are changing for me then.
SteveM:
Did they do astral experiment projects? If they did then I too would love to see their notes! I've been really curious about Leila Waddell for some time. Something about the public information on her just doesn't stack up for me. I can usually get a sense for why people did the things they did, or what they were thinking at the time, but for her it feels like something is off and there is so much more that the records don't tell. From what I can tell we don't even have her birth date and times... odd for an occultist that it isn't recorded somewhere.
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Fascinating stuff! It seems then that the overall suggestion is that one can be seen. Ghosts are seen, and so why not our own ethric projections? I wonder if one does develops this ability, if it is dangerous in some manner these days? Ive read that the modern environment filled with electrical wires, running water and so much metal can disrupt etheric forms.
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@Daegal said
" I've read that the modern environment filled with electrical wires, running water and so much metal can disrupt etheric forms."
An actual psychic projection of consciousness cannot be influenced by physical emanations. The reversal is true however! Modern environmental electromagnetism can effect certain frequencies of the physical aura. However etheric vibrations are of a different frequency to purely psychic ones. The latter remain impervious to physical energies.
The astral realm can be divided up into a spectrum of psychic energies or frequencies. The lowest and most dense of these are what we would call the etheric because it is closest to the physical plane and is a mingling of the corporeal and psychic.
Galzu
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@Daegal said
"Fascinating stuff! It seems then that the overall suggestion is that one can be seen. Ghosts are seen, and so why not our own ethric projections? I wonder if one does develops this ability, if it is dangerous in some manner these days? Ive read that the modern environment filled with electrical wires, running water and so much metal can disrupt etheric forms."
Well, our etheric form (as well as astral, psychic,mental etc.) is always active even if our consciousness isn't centered there. So I imagine that if those things will hurt the etheric body, then they will do so even if we aren't going OB.
I kept a journal for a while where I noted down any lucid etheric events and what was going on with the sun, and that proved to be very useful to me. During geomagnetic storms of Kp5+ I would find myself out of body walking around the house quite easily. If the index hit Kp6 then I was 'land locked' so to speak, while out of body. At that range it was nearly impossible to get back into the body for more than a few seconds. Once the storm began to subside I could wake up properly in my body. The other factor was solar flares. In a flare event over C class, if I was asleep at the time, I would most likely have very vivid astral dreams or go out in the etheric but at a higher brighter level. If you want to keep track of what's going on with space weather, here's a good site: www.spaceweather.com/
As a side note, I did Opening by Watchtower immediately prior to an earthquake once and had some crazy symbols flashing across my earth tablet. Energy, earth, sun, our various bodies... they all work together in strange and wonderful ways.
I really hope none of these lucid events are harmful to the subtle bodies... but I really don't know.
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@RhiH said
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SteveM:Did they do astral experiment projects? "
Sorry, my error, memory playing tricks on me, I was confusing her with Elaine Simpson (Soror Fidelis). See chapter 53 of his Confessions and/or from p.92 of Perdurabo.
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I wanted to add that its not that the modern environment would be dangerous to life etc., but rather if one was able to create a strong etheric body, capable of manifesting enough to be seen, these things could disrupt this form and send the traveller back with a "snap".
I read a book that goes into this subject, I believe it was by Greer, called "Monsters" and was about monster hunting. It sounds funny, but he actually goes into a lot of solid magickal theory, one is that these etheric forms can be dispersed using weapons made of metal, rock salt (which is energy absorbing crystal) and running water etc. And that we do not encounter these types of forms much anymore because of the environment which is now rich in materials and devices that disrupt their etheric forms.
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@Daegal said
"I wanted to add that its not that the modern environment would be dangerous to life etc., but rather if one was able to create a strong etheric body, capable of manifesting enough to be seen, these things could disrupt this form and send the traveller back with a "snap".
I read a book that goes into this subject, I believe it was by Greer, called "Monsters" and was about monster hunting. It sounds funny, but he actually goes into a lot of solid magical theory, one is that these etheric forms can be dispersed using weapons made of metal, rock salt (which is energy absorbing crystal) and running water etc. And that we do not encounter these types of forms much anymore because of the environment which is now rich in materials and devices that disrupt their etheric forms."
So, you like "Monsters" do you? Want to see some? Here in my part of the world in Brighton (a large electromagnetically filled city and coincidentally the place of Crowley's funeral - he lived here at times. I've also done workings at some of his old power points but that is another story) there are lots of Monsters. They appear all over the place. What is your part of the world by the way? I notice you have left any kind of info on your profile deliberatly blank. Yet your name suggests you are a dweller by the dark stream
You obviously want to talk and have some lively ideas, so quite naturally as a magickian that makes me curious about you personally. Also you are talking environment and it's effect, so your type of location (urban, rural etc) has a bearing on the discussion.I'm just being curious as to what your personal experiences might have been. I'm not asking for your address So don't panic.
I know when any magickal work is undertaken one is supposed to not have anything in the environment of the working that will produce an electromagnatic field because this apparently would disrupt the operation. Although that is an interesting idea about our modern environment causing a field of energy that blocks the manifestation of etheric forms it doesn't actually add up with the facts. Have you not noticed we have just as many monsters now in our urban cultures as we used to? In fact you could say we are more aware of them and put more thought energy into them than we ever used to as a species!Galzu
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@Galz said
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@Daegal said
"So, you like "Monsters" do you? Want to see some? Here in my part of the world in Brighton (a large electromagnetically filled city and coincidentally the place of Crowley's funeral - he lived here at times. I've also done workings at some of his old power points but that is another story) there are lots of Monsters. They appear all over the place. What is your part of the world by the way? I notice you have left any kind of info on your profile deliberatly blank. Yet your name suggests you are a dweller by the dark stream
You obviously want to talk and have some lively ideas, so quite naturally as a magician that makes me curious about you personally. Also you are talking environment and it's effect, so your type of location (urban, rural etc) has a bearing on the discussion.I'm just being curious as to what your personal experiences might have been. I'm not asking for your address So don't panic.
I know when any magical work is undertaken one is supposed to not have anything in the environment of the working that will produce an electromagnatic field because this apparently would disrupt the operation. Although that is an interesting idea about our modern environment causing a field of energy that blocks the manifestation of etheric forms it doesn't actually add up with the facts. Have you not noticed we have just as many monsters now in our urban cultures as we used to? In fact you could say we are more aware of them and put more thought energy into them than we ever used to as a species!Galzu
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"I love monsters! Always open to new experiences, especially the monster variety lol.
As for my profile, as mysterious as I may seem I'm trying to be I'm afraid its rather boring why its blank. I simply didn't know how, and still don't! But I am impressed you knew the basic meaning of the name I chose! How bout the gemetria? (Now I spot the profile button :-/)
I live in Calif, just outside LA. I live in a cozy back house up in the hills that I dedicate to magic of course! I love the tranquility. Has a great view of the city below, yet no monsters to speak of lol!
As for the theory of etheric forms being disrupted not adding up, all I can say is I don't know. But I have to argue I am not aware of monsters lurking around cities anywhere! Specifically what type of monsters are you talking about? Aliens? Sasquatch? Vampires? Or zombies? Are these monsters flesh and blood or what we were discussing; thick heavy stinky etheric masses? Lol
We may still encounter these forms, I'm guessing if they exist, but the theory proposed in the book suggested they were much more prevalent back in the days of straw and wood and campfires. More technology and even crowding of various aura's could effect their abilities etc. That was my point.
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Galzu is the expert in Monsters so I'll let him deal with at subject -lol
I think it was Eliaphas Levi (Magick; a history of it's rites, rituals, and mysteries) that talks about the balance of energies and how manifestation occurs? Whatever the case, there is a little witchy trick of putting out a bowl of camphor and tea tree or eucalyptus to throw off the atmosphere enough to keep minor activity at bay. I'm not sure if it would work on something stronger than a ghost or minor nasty though.
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@RhiH said
"Galzu is the expert in Monsters so I'll let him deal with at subject -lol
I think it was Eliaphas Levi (Magick; a history of it's rites, rituals, and mysteries) that talks about the balance of energies and how manifestation occurs? Whatever the case, there is a little witchy trick of putting out a bowl of camphor and tea tree or eucalyptus to throw off the atmosphere enough to keep minor activity at bay. I'm not sure if it would work on something stronger than a ghost or minor nasty though."
Yes well it seems Galzu knows more about it! I love it lol, so interesting to me!
Yeah ive read about that sort of technique too. I think I also heard of leaving out a bowl of salt? Or something like that, again I believe its the salts crystal nature that makes it useful. I think this is one of the primary reasons rock salt was used to make magic circles as well. But something as dense and manifested as an etheric form would probably be a little more difficult to banish I'm assuming.
I don't know! Where's Jim Eshelman?? Lol
Jim? Jim?
Come here a minute!
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@Daegal said
"I don't know! Where's Jim Eshelman?? Lol
Jim? Jim?
Come here a minute!
"Yes? Need something?
(I'm doing my best to ignore this barrage of threads on aliens, astral and etheric phenomena, pop occultism, and the like - to "let them be" rather than interfere with what people want to talk about. I suppose it's technically on topic, even though I have yet to notice anything in them that has anything to do with the methodology of the Great Work.)