Black brother and his fate...
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@Iamus said
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@Archaeus said
" But in fact they are classic examples of 32nd path phenomena. As this path is connected in a way to Binah it does share some qualities, and so the confusion is understandable, although not excusable."
Huh, I never made that connection before. That's especially interesting to me becasue during my spiritual awakening/depressive illness I identified very strongly with Saturn, despite knowing very little about magick or even astrology at the time."Yes. A whole lot of experiences that feel legimately like "crossing the Abyss" are Tav experiences - especially crossing Tav from Malkuth in Assiah to Yesod in Yetirah (thus "crossing the Abyss" between Assiah and Yetzirah, to abuse the language a bit). (Of course, many others aren't anywhere near that level.) If I hadn't had the exact mapping of the A.'.A.'. system to follow at that exact point (about to enter 2=9), it would have been very difficult for me avoid interpreting it (with lots of ego-infusion!) as "I crossed the Abyss." (I was only destabilized a few weeks.)
A less-known phenomenon is one that hits the mature Adeptus Minor. When the experience in Tiphereth is mature, the natural course of development is toward Geburah and the 6=5 grade. I can tell you, the 6=5 really feels like "this must be crossing the Abyss." The three middle-triad grades are all "gates to the Abyss," so 6=5 is rightly called "the 2nd Gate to the Abyss." The severity aspects, the infusion and domination of Binah-Babalon ideas (Geburah opening itself rightly to the direct inflow/influence of Binah), the Lamed and Mem phenomena en route, and the (to me) surprisingly huge gap from 5=6 to 6=5 feels, for the most part, not all that different from large sections of the Vision & Voice subjective reports.
But it' s not the same. The perspective to keep is that there is an entire Tree within each sephirah, so even authentic, well-tracked experiences of feeling yourself move "up and through" the entire Tree to the top are deceptive. Also, that the 'gap' between individual grades can be extreme, even revolutionary, so it is misleading to take every "I blew myself the F away" passage as The Abyss.
And in Geburah, it is perhaps more 'persuasive' because, in the fulfillment of the Work of the grade, the influence to which you are opening is indeed Binah. Binah is the form or aspect of the Supernals that forges the primary link of the Major Adept, just as Kether is its expression to one in Tiphereth. (See The 32 Paths of Wisdom for the 5th Path.) But then one goes on to Chesed, and the primary voice of the linkage is from Chokmah via Vav.
"While I can hardly claim authority or first hand experience with this, it strikes me as extrememly troubling that an Exempt Adept preparing to cross the abyss would need to receive mental health services in this way. Additionally, I always understood that during this process, the lower self (body, intellect, etc.) goes on as always, holding down a job, carrying out family obligations, etc., but in a higher sense the Adapt is not really present in these things."
Some might benefit from this. But the idea of a general throwing of all such types together troubles me. The most powerful force governing this particular stage is its vacuousness - emptiness - its sterility. The Work (that cannot be intentionally done by the adept) is accomplished by the starvation of the psyche from certain phenomena.
And Crowley removed people passing through it from all contact with groups (probably to protect both sides in different ways). IMO that's an appropriate step. (This was lifted when they came through the other side as a Master.)
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My experiences in 2010 seem to fit this as well.
There was a very Saturnine quality to my life at the time (personal tragedy, interpersonal difficulties, depression) combined with a deep introspection and "descent" into the world of the unconscious. My dreams became very archetypal, with prominent dark anima and snake imagery. I had to let go of a lot of what I thought was "me". It culminated in a profound kundalini experience, which was followed by brief periods of clairvoyance and other phenomena. I think this probably was an experience of the path of Tav.
I'm guessing that the combo of the tragic/Saturnine feel, and the "underworld" of the unconscious can be mistaken for "the Abyss".
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@nashimiron said
"I get the impression that a lot of people who claim to have crossed the abyss forget the fourth power of the Sphynx. Which power can be related to the element Earth and the letter and path of Tau, which as hinted at by Archaeus, would suggest that they are going through an ordeal on this path and I would add failing to ground it, instead dispersing the energy through superfluous speach."
Did you hear what happened to the lovely Sphynx last week?
She was reclaimed, and adorned, annointed if you will.It has been promoted that the Y chromosome reacts with fight or flight
But the double XX will reveal and discuss, bond and join forces instead of running.I dont pretend to understand these paths and words, but when I said that I thought I was on the otherside, I wasnt impling that "i" crossed anything.
There used to be a time when blinds, and lies, and secrets were needed for this matter. But from where I sit, that time is gone.
From the information that has been revealed to me, little ol V, BB are attempting to square the circle, which may be where evolution is heading, mayabe.....
But I just dont think that is possible yet, under these condtions at least.
I wonder why it is, that when I was but a teen, I received the Book of the Law, accepted that Love is the Law and has dedicated my Life to Her. My oaths to Her would not allow me to join or lend energies to any organization that was not in accordance to Her TrueWill, so I have painstakenly worked on my own, or with other like minded women.
Crossing the abyss means one has completed the Great Work, No?
if one has completed the the Great Work, doesnt that mean that they have repaired any damaged DNA?
The BB would not be able, be equipt, to create that....to repair the damages, and come out whole, correct?
I sincerly would like to have some one give me a solid answer on those questions.
I love this planet, and someday I may be able to create my own, but till then my alligences are with Her, so I dont think I need to worry about crossing the abyss. If another human being has allready done it, then I have the capacity, and the memory to do it, for the original being allready laid the path at the micro level...if you will.
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To the Gala?
Oh, I got up and took off down the highway, waitin' for the limo to pick me up and take me.
My old man ran/limped after me and called me back home.
He's a faithful and true old man. He had some good things to say. I needed to hear them.
Never made it to the Gala though. Chockma blocked, I guess... lol...
But back to the serious folks...
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@Q789 said
"I fundamentally disagree with Crowley. I Myself, spent some years in this state and relate to hte 'desert' analogy that Ben describes in his article
hermetic.com/browe-archive/abyss2.htm"
That's an excellent article, thanks. The only thing I seriously disagree with is his assertion that it is significantly at odds with what Crowey wrote/taught on the subject.
It IS quite at odds with what the majority of the magical community makes out of Crowley's reports. People have read Crowley's words and made "something else" out of them. For this reason especially, the article serves as a valuable corrective.
I don't have time (or, actually, inclination) to do a complete breakdown but, just to hit Ben's summary points:
"There was no "jumping into the Abyss"; in fact, no Abyss as such."
In the way that is meaningful, this is contradicted - or at least clarified - by Ben's earlier statement, "The discontinuity, to the extent there is one, is entirely a matter of perspective; the transcendent view is dramatically different from the Self-centered view common to the lower levels." That's exactly what it is, the gap (of immeasurable scope) in the star's experience of itself.
"There was no confrontation with the Demon Choronzon, or any other supposed "denizen" of the "Abyss". No apparently external horrors of any sort, not even Chthulhu."
I submit that there was - but that what Ben (like others) expected from Crowley's writings was different from the actuality. (Remember, for example, that the entire published record of Crowley's Vision of the 10th Aethyr is not the report of Crowley's experience - it's the report of Victor Neuberg's experience. See my Visions & Voices for a detailed breakdown of this.) The error is in thinking of Choronzon in the classic Medieval magick (and modern movie) sense. It does appear, for example, that Ben had long experience with the state of dispersion, indirection, unconcentratedness, absence of control or motivation to particular action, etc. - and many more subtle things - which make up the essential nature of Choronzon (whom I have called The Anti-Will). The essence of Choronzon is "incontinence and dispersion."
"No particular invocations were involved in triggering the event. It took place during an hiatus in my Enochian work, and that work was directed to other purposes in any case. "
I agree. This isn't like that. I can't think of a single place that Crowley said an invocation was necessary, except that the specific work being done at his exact point in time required him to continue with the next step (which was the next aethyr).
On the other hand, in everything I have seen, the crossing IS a consequence of a decision. (The "plunging in" - though "slipping in" might be more accurate most of the time - is involuntary. The "crossing," by which I mean the final setting foot on new land, is a consequence of a decision. It sometimes looks like a realization, but that realization is the reification of a decision.)
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I will agree with you on so many points you wrote above. I don't totally agree with EVERY THING Ben wrote- just the main point. Remember, that we have two, three or five different perspectives here. Crowley was obliviously terrified by it( the concept of dissolving the I)- whilst others arn't(for example).
I would put it a different way and say- i can totally relate to what Ben wrote.Bens perspective is that there is not abyss..........well ...........eeeerrrrrrrrrrrr .......... there appears to be- however it is not a sephiro, as such. To me it most certainly acts as a barrier so that those forces above cannot reach those (her feet not touching the little flowers) below. Anyone, who has real experience with these forces should understand this- not just nightmares(as famous story tellers speak of), but probable genetically damage. Sometimes, you need to raise your plants in a greenhouse- right? So IMO there is at least one good purpose for this design of the universe. This particular, design, i beleive goes back to the end of the Dreamtime. You see, IMO if those forces where allowed full access to this planet, then we would need many many more people who know how to control them, than we do right now. We would also need a different spiritual/cultural system than we do now- probably one based on ..... well you tell me.
Q
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@Q789 said
"Bens perspective is that there is not abyss..........well ...........eeeerrrrrrrrrrrr .......... there appears to be- however it is not a sephiro, as such."
Well, duh! No body every said the Abyss is a sephirah. (Separate from the Abyss is the idea of Da'ath, which is IN the Abyss - and I've long emphasized that Da'ath isn't a sephirah. The sepiroth are "ten and not nine, ten and not eleven.")
I detect your sincerity, and I know of Ben's sincerity. But there is a serious risk of celebrating the knocking over of scarecrows: Misunderstanding what Crowley wrote, crediting him with things he never said and ideas he never held, and then triumphantly trouncing them. "Since Abraham Lincoln had a secret agenda to recapture the liberated slaves once they came north and use them for genetic experiments, it's really good that somebody shot hin when they did." That sort of thing.
So, I repeat: My only real trouble with the article is the assertion that its concluions are at odds with what Crowley taught in the first place.
"To me it most certainly acts as a barrier so that those forces above cannot reach those (her feet not touching the little flowers) below."
The perimeter of the ego, and insistence on living inside that perimeter, is the wall, and the psyche IS structured to hold tightly, almost in panic, against the crumbling of that wall. (Until, of course, something changes its mind.)
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Hi x-munki,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Firstly, I know this thread is months old, but it is still a relevant one.
To get this thread back on the topic that you started:
@x-munki said
"Can the whole thing be brought back up somehow (to finish the job)? Can the contact be redeemed?"
I'll tell you right now: even if you have fallen into the Abyss, it is still possible to cross the Abyss successfully and attain to Understanding and Wisdom.
However it's not possible to abort and restart the crossing. You can't get ejected from the Abyss, below the supernals in order to "try again". The person in question is "in the Abyss" and they have to continue from there.
Jim Eshelman correctly referenced Crowley and the Curriculum of the A.'. A.'., to show that the A.'. A.'. curriculum and cosmology provides no avenue for getting out of the Abyss if the entry was done without one's Holy Guardian Angel. Basically; once you fail to cross the Abyss cleanly and quickly, you're "done" for this incarnation.
However, I have found that this is not the case. If a person falls in the Abyss; through will or through weakness, there is still the chance for "redemption" as it were.
I can say all of this because in 2006 I fell in the Abyss, and I found the way out.
I don't say "fell in the Abyss" flippantly; the Abyss is referred to a lot on these forums and understandably there is a lot of confusion around it. I did not merely have some weird dreams or visions, or crazy synchronicities, or become introspective and then declare that I had crossed the Abyss, or fall into a deep depression that lasted for a while or anything like that.
When I say that I fell in to the Abyss, I mean that I fell in to the Abyss. Within days of that critical juncture and my subconscious decision to fail, the dispersion of Choronzon settled on my brows. My genitals shrunk and became impotent, my mind was catapulted into the Archetypal world and began dispersing under the tremendous weight of my Karma. I would physically get knocked down backwards as if I was standing in an undertow on the shores of some ocean. Time slowed down immensely and I was stricken with insomnia. The lightning flashes of Da'ath crackled all around me. I saw what my True Will was but was completely powerless to achieve it. I saw my entire world crumbling around me and in short, I was in Hell and there was no way out.
And yet, I knew instinctively that this was not to be my end. Even in the state that I was in, I somehow knew that this was "all a part of it" for me and I became determined to not wither and die.
It became my duty to find the way out and to walk that path. This is what I have done, and I now share the way out that I found.
I have written the first volume of a book called "The Keys to Heaven", and I share this book freely with all those who have fallen in the Abyss. It is no mere theory, I have walked this path and I have turned what I have learned and experienced in to a book that can guide others out too. The book contains the bare minimum of what you need to get moving and keep moving on that path. It's not a quick fix, but it works.
So much of the path involves working things out for yourself, and having those AHA! moments. I have kept it as brief as possible and try to describe the things to do but not what to expect, so that I didn't spoil any surprises.
To support the understanding of book I've started a blog where people can ask questions and get clarification if they need.
For anyone who has fallen in the Abyss and wants it; the first volume of the book can be downloaded from my blog. The link is contained in this post (the link may be updated from time to time) - quietrespite.wordpress.com/2012/11/10/welcome-to-quiet-respite
The blog is: quietrespite.wordpress.com and I am available to all who ask for help.
Love is the law, love under will
B.'. H.'.
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@Lykathea said
"Hi Frater B:. H:.,
I've read through your book and it seems to be a perfect example of Tav phenomena. Sorry :disappointed: and I have experienced Tav phenomena a great deal in my life."I thought the same, and I've just past through Tav myself.
Don't mistake Yesod for Binah, otherwise you'll simply stop in Yesod.
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For instance:
It states in that book that in the abyss you get a sort of insight into your true will, but are unable to put it into practice. But if you were really at the threshold of the abyss you would have done this long before.
The phenomena you refer to is one of the aspects of the path of Tau, and in fact if fits closely with my own experiences of that path.
I suggest you reassess your experience, but of course you will not
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Going only by what has been quoted here, I have to agree... This sounds utterly like Tav as the threshold between Assiah and Yetzirah.
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@x-munki said
"I was wondering,
What are the general possibilities of a so-called "black brother", who, due to certain insecurities failed to cross the abyss, lost the solid contact with his HGA and fell off the path into the dead zone?
Can the whole thing be brought back up somehow (to finish the job)? Can the contact be redeemed?
Tnx"
Hey,
Totally new here (so forgive my arrogance), and this is a really old thread, but:
A black brother only knows that he or she is one AFTER the fact, they can never know beforehand or while it is happening, only after one is doomed: then one can know
The genesis of a black brother seems to be an inability to let go of conscious control of a process that does not depend on conscious control, but in fact depends on the surrendering and ripping away of conscious control (vulnerability, surrender), unconsciously
If for some reason (unconsciously, or there is some unexamined and unprepared element that has not been considered), the "fear reflex" emerges, the process is ground to a halt, and the black brother is left in a sort of "orgasm denied" state, which is called the Abyss (think blue balls)
That's basically all it is
The reason why a black brother cannot climb up until a subsequent lifetime is because: the climb is not conscious
It does not depend on personal effort, or any sort of deliberate, planned cultivation
This is particularly why the Abyss is scary because it hits someone unawares, and totally without preparation, and continues until of course, you ask it to stop
I encountered the Abyss early on in my life (when I was 15-16), and it continued until it ground to a halt at 16, since then I've lived in a sort of nightmare, but that's basically how it works
The "leap" itself (hence, letting go of conscious control, but unconsciously), merely happens to a person, and this is why it's scary (hence, a "leap")
If the adept succeeds in somehow slipping back into the groove (unconsciously, again) for several lifetimes, and finds himself unawares climbing the orgasm roller coaster, he or she may succeed again
It really, to me, just seems a lack of preparation, or some unexamined issue that bothers the adept, and prevents him or her from crossing
Notice how orgass (in French) mean "little death", and seem to depend on surrender to possibly being subsumed by your partner, and letting go of the fear of death, or bodily instincts, etc
Cheers!
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@Patriel Machad said
":shock:"
Dude, I really dislike it when someone just posts an emoticon, as if it is SO OBVIOUS, what you are in shock about, or think is stupid, or not to be listened to
This particular annoys me, because: if there's something that you think is dumb, you should be able to say it, clearly and concisely (as well as precisely)
When you post an emoticon, it makes it seems like it's SO OBVIOUS, what you're showing contempt for, that no one needs to say anything
But really, all it reveals is that you cannot say anything, or what is wrong with my post, or what bothers you
So, Patriel Machado, why
":shock:"
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@Patriel Machad said
"Well, it is obvious. That's the point.
In any case, as a Master of the Temple (or one in the making), you see my "contempt" (or whatever it is) as an instrument of your delight. So, "to hell with [you]"!
Peace.
"You know that "enlightened etiquette" doesn't really imply that you're enlightened, and no one is going think that a certain individual is enlightened because they respond to people in a certain way on an Internet forum (unless of course, that actually happens)
Anyways, what follows is really just for me:
What I meant earlier by the "SO OBVIOUS", is really just a form of "begging the question", or the "appeal to the obvious", which in fact may not be obvious, but really, nebulous
And in effect, my own "Abyss crossing", happened like this:
It spontaneously initiated itself at the age of 15 for me, prior to this "event", I had been doing no spiritual practices, nor any meditation, nor was I involved with any religion (to a great degree, I was somewhat a fan of Buddhism)
Some sort of roller coaster started, and a bunch of events in my life conspired together to create this coasting or "avalanche" effect, wherein everything fell together, this went on for only a few brief months
If I recall correctly it was around Oct-Nov of the the previous year, to around May of the next year, so perhaps six months in total
At the end of the process, wherein I had "failed" to cross, it was only then that I had become aware of the enormity of the "thing" I had failed to do, which, I didn't know was happening at the time
In some sense, perhaps it was "my" desire to "hijack" the process that didn't let it follow through
Prior to the event there was a slow, but steady trepidation that crept up to the "avalanche", it was somewhat of an intimation, or suspense, that something big was going to happen, finally it initiated itself, although in some senses I helped it and created the drama, I couldn't "hold water anymore" (that is how I described it to some people)
Eventually, "I" died, somehow, inexplicably, and have been residing in some sort of wasteland ever since
The events that surrounded the "initiation" were "incidental", "consciously" ("at the time"), they were what I complained about
The crossing itself, also incidental!
Prior to the "thing happening", almost zero spiritual practice, I did do a few sits of Vipassana on my own, but these sits were around 10 minutes each time, and there were no more than 5 serious ones
"During the thing", if that can even be said, almost no spiritual practice, but was assiduously involved in reading Chinese astrology (Sizhu Bazi)
And only afterwards, did I become aware that I had failed in something that I wasn't even consciously doing!
So I attempted to pick up the pieces
Cheers friend!
