James Wasserman's new book / Guther question
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@Patthana Gati said
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Well it won't work. For a start, most of their membership get involved with the Pagan community first and drift to the O.T.O. - so I'll be telling the truth and poisoning the well on the biggest online pagan community until the O.T.O. start being properly non-partisan and start listing links to other A.'.A.'. branches on their homepage. "
That's unlikely when you consider that the heads of the OTO all belong to that particular lineage of AA. Although they deny any connection and actively discourage talk of the AA at OTO meetings I know that many of their membership are interested in the Order and many belong to groups other than the Motta/Gunther gang.
If you check out Outercols website they begin by stating that the Order is one, with one eye in the triangle. The page on the OTO US grand lodge sticks to a similar script and simply acts like its common knowledge that there is one OTO and one AA, in this way the propagate the lie and those who are new to Thelema take it as read and are quite surprised when they find out that there are other claimant groups.
This is actually quite a clever bit of psychology when you think about it, if people come in fresh minded and are told that the AA is one thing; and this idea settles in their minds so that they don't think to question it. This way what happens is when they hear that there are many AA groups the new info doesn't match up with what they already "know" they reject it.
Once they join and have some emotional attachment to the lineage it doesn't take much to convince them of what they already want to believe, and so the lie becomes truth because everyone believes it.
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In fact thinking about it like that it's starting to look like the whole "we are the only AA" thing is yet another relic of the argument by faith/believer script thing that's been floating around here for the last few days.
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Um
your cut and paste makes it look like you wrote what was in my post
When I first came across Crowley in my teens I was more interested in the AA than anything else, I didn't even pay Liber Al that much attention for a long time, but that's another story. Anyway, at that time if you wanted to contact the AA you contacted outercol as that was the only one extant, those being the days before internet.
Anyway, I tried for years to get a response, never did, and now I'm glad I didn't or I'd probably have ended up believing the same script as the rest of them.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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Yeah I know, the best thing to do is to just get on with the work and let people rant and shout all they want, unfortunately some of us in the Outer College still get hacked off when those who should know better start rocking the boat for petty ego benefits.
As an OTO member I should in theory look up to guys like this, but this kind of thing makes me wonder what kind of vipers nest I'm in. I too have had Motta lineage people distance themselves from me over the subject.
I'll be honest, posting my thoughts in this thread is a way of letting off steam, and I feel that this is a necessary thing to do sometimes because bottling it all up for the sake of being silent tends to make it into a bigger bogey than it is.
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Speaking on the issue - and not pointing it, in the present thread, at any individuals per se - I think today I would just repeat word for word what I wrote in my editorial in Black Pearl No. 8, under the title, "Purple Beyond Purple."
Feel free to look it up. (Or not, of course.)
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@draco210 said
"I guess my posts may sound like ranting, but Silence is the enemy of Truth."
(Without labelling your posts, but commenting on the principle...)
Yes, and ranting is also the enemy of Truth.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Speaking on the issue - and not pointing it, in the present thread, at any individuals per se - I think today I would just repeat word for word what I wrote in my editorial in Black Pearl No. 8, under the title, "Purple Beyond Purple."
Feel free to look it up. (Or not, of course.)"
Thanks Jim, that's really helpful. As I said, as I am also a member of OTO (although for how much longer I don't know) this kind of thing grates on me, and may eventually bring me to leave that Order to pursue my work in peace. For myself I have no qualms with anybody claiming to represent the AA, that kind of thing is between themselves and their Holy Guardian Angel. What gets me angry is the way people who should be seen as Brethren come up with the kind of rubbish that we see pop up from time to time.
It really does look as if they are trying hard to hide their nakedness by accusing others of the fault. -
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@Patthana Gati said
"Would you mind giving a link too? Or posting the relevant bits as I'm not really a fan of small homegrown mags. Not even my own... so finding a black pearl volume is not high on my agenda."
Download free from <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thelema.org/publications">www.thelema.org/publications</a><!-- w -->
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@Archaeus said
"I too have had Motta lineage people distance themselves from me over the subject."
Motta must be spinning in his grave, being associated with people who he either expelled or who resigned from the Order when he was in charge!
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@Patthana Gati said
"I have been disappointed by the talk Wasserman posted on Youtube on Thursday. www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDsxyTc3a8"
Is there any truth to the rumour that just after the recording was stopped, an unidentified individual stands up and with a cry of "Allahu Akbar!" throws a sandal at him?
