Initiation & Mood Disorders
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I am new to Thelema as well. I also have bipolar, type I. There are people saying that I might also have a personality disorder because I have extremely low self-esteem. I have been trying to practice for several months steadily, but have been interested for longer than that.
My big thing is that I keep thinking I'm just plain not good enough for Thelema. Not strong enough, not stable enough, just not good enough. And of course I could probably find someone who would tell me that I was good enough, but then, are they really being Thelemic? It always seemed to me that there was no room for weakness.
Remember this?
"Yea! deem not of change: ye shall be as ye are, & not other. Therefore the kings of the earth shall be Kings for ever: the slaves shall serve. There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was. Yet there are masked ones my servants: it may be that yonder beggar is a King. A King may choose his garment as he will: there is no certain test: but a beggar cannot hide his povert - Liber Al Vel Legis, 2:58"
That seems to be saying that if you're not strong, well, you're just not strong, and there's no way to change it. It also implies, like Nietzsche does, that certain people are kings and certain people are slaves, naturally. Actually, it has quite a bit to do with Nietzsche, who I think was inspired, as well. However, it also says that a king can be disguised as a begger, implying that some people who seem to be slaves are not. On the gripping hand, the king has chosen to appear as a slave; to appear weak - he is really strong. If he was not strong, he wouldn't be capable of making that choice - he has the power of self-valuation, whereas the slave does not. The slave can only point at someone and say "You are evil," but cannot point at himself and say "I am good." This can't change. Whether Thelema is for you or not, you have a True Will, and for some people, that is to be a slave. Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Room for such people in Thelema? Probably not.
The first chapter makes me think I can be a Thelemite, but the second chapter makes me think otherwise. The second chapter is also my favorite chapter, and the verse I quoted my second-favorite verse.
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I appreciate all of the replies. Thankyou. I don't know much at this point. I get a lot of the intellectual concepts as I have said, I have "read" quite a bit. But of course this work is not about reading, and I know that much. I guess i have to start somewhere.
So I am at the point of either making the decision to take it seriously and putting the books down, or not at all, hence my questions purpose, which was sort of a hang up in my mind. I feel I need structure, and need a teacher, any advice as to where to search? I live in Tampa, FL area. There are some of these meetup.com groups, but that is all i have found through internet searches.
Protagonist, that may be a bit of a paradox.. You may want to think of what you have been through, and how you are still standing, some might have opted out. I am looking at this as something that will make me stronger, and also if i can make it through some of what I have endured, I might just have enough discipline and will to take this journey further. Hindsight is 20/20 and it is peculiar how i even became interested in occult studies, a few years back i would have scoffed at the idea. But now i feel like i am supposed to move forward.
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Is no one going to eviscerate me for commenting on the Book of the Law? I'm disappointed. I was rather looking forward to that.
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@Protagonis said
"Is no one going to eviscerate me for commenting on the Book of the Law? I'm disappointed. I was rather looking forward to that."
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. Oh yeah, there's another law; don't go looking for trouble.
What? That's not the law? You mean to tell me there is only one Law?
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Disclaimer This post is just a speculation. I am far from qualified to give medical, psychiatric, psychological, or magical advice.
I can't help noticing how often people here mention being bipolar or dealing with depression. I wonder if an effective magical therapy might not be the exercise Crowley calls Vibration of Divine Names (Liber O, III. 3.) Here, you fill yourself with energy then expend it all, but instead of collapsing into lassitude or depression, you dissolve into the Void. In this way, you might train the soul to vibrate, not between elation and depression, but between divine ecstasy and the ecstasy of silence.
Just a thought.
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@gmugmble said
"Disclaimer This post is just a speculation. I am far from qualified to give medical, psychiatric, psychological, or magical advice.
I can't help noticing how often people here mention being bipolar or dealing with depression. I wonder if an effective magical therapy might not be the exercise Crowley calls Vibration of Divine Names (Liber O, III. 3.) Here, you fill yourself with energy then expend it all, but instead of collapsing into lassitude or depression, you dissolve into the Void. In this way, you might train the soul to vibrate, not between elation and depression, but between divine ecstasy and the ecstasy of silence.
Just a thought."
Ha! Perhaps..
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Exactly true.
As stated elsewhere: When the lightning strikes, it powers ALL patterns in the psyche.
That's why Temple of Thelema works on the patterns in the psyche while building the lightning rod.
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@kasper81 said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That's why Temple of Thelema works on the patterns in the psyche while building the lightning rod."how and when does it work on patterns in the psyche?"
Well, that's a long story (and not a public one). In a sense, it's most of the work of the First Order, beginning right from the start in 0° and kicking into high gear in 2°.
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@kasper81 said
"Jim, why would there be an , "amplification"?"
That's the nature of the light. - But, to switch the metaphor (and be slightly incorrect, but not much)... Think of "light" simply as undifferentiated power. All of the patterns in your behavior (innate or acquired - hardwired, or rewired) are kicked into gear when they are POWERED. The more power flowing through them, the more intensely, vividly, dramatically they manifest.
"Also , we all have negative and positive traits so if the negative and positive are amplified then any negative amplification shouldn't really be a problem as it is kept in check by the amplified positivity"
A problem is only a problem if it's a problem. Also, anytime a problem is a problem, it's a problem!
Meaning: We call these behaviors "problems" because they interfere with something. They sabotage our effective functioning, or they mess up relationships etc. (In the case under discussion, very serious undesirable consequences result.) If there are no undesirable consequences, though... then it's not a problem.
As for your last sentence, it seems to me that you are saying that we shouldn't worry too much about the one, small flaw that a person is a compulsive serial killer, given that he also is a terribly nice bloke, gives money to local charities, and has a loving family and amazingly bright children.
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@kasper81 said
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@kasper81 said
"Jim, why would there be an , "amplification"?"That's the nature of the light. - But, to switch the metaphor (and be slightly incorrect, but not much)... Think of "light" simply as undifferentiated power. All of the patterns in your behavior (innate or acquired - hardwired, or rewired) are kicked into gear when they are POWERED. The more power flowing through them, the more intensely, vividly, dramatically they manifest. "
Only if we are not oberving them"
But if they still exist and you block or resist them, then you're binding up a fundamental part of your psyche.
The much better approach is to resolve them.
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@kasper81 said
"That's what I meant Jim, ultimately,in the moment observation is a resolving."
But that's not what I meant. I meant go get therapy (or something equivalent) and actually resolve the matter.
"I also feel, as AC said, pranayama purges all emotional anxiety dosorders,"
But it doesn't. It does give temporary calming and (over time) an ability to learn to step back from reactivity. But neither of those resolves the underlying issue - it just reduces the occasions that the issue rises into prominence.
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People who go to get therapy and have mood or personality disorders are usually offered CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) and the meditative techniques that are taught as part of CBT are derived from Yoga. The other part of CBT is learning ways we can identify when our thinking is distorting our perception of reality - either amplifying it or reducing it (by denying it). Dr Shoemaker did a great 'living Thelema' segment on how Magicians can benefit from CBT as part of their daily practise.
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@kasper81 said
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@Alrah said
"People who go to get therapy and have mood or personality disorders are usually offered CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) and the meditative techniques that are taught as part of CBT are derived from Yoga. The other part of CBT is learning ways we can identify when our thinking is distorting our perception of reality - either amplifying it or reducing it (by denying it). Dr Shoemaker did a great 'living Thelema' segment on how Magicians can benefit from CBT as part of their daily practise.www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxDMxkGyaDU&list=PL5AF2D76A111E402C"
I would say that yoga is not a substitute for counselling. Counselling is a trained professional, confronting our behaviour. No one here, on this message board, knows whether any other poster does irrational things in their daily activity. Not unless they are actual aquaintences, friends, outside of this board, and even then their opinion regarding the others' development is irrelevant, unless they are a trained, professional counsellor. That goes for any Thelemic message board too.
However, I think it's fair to say that posts (especially reactive, instant, "on the bounce" posts) involving rudeness and insults would be indicative of an unresolved psychological problem, simply because they have that defense-mechanism quality to them"
CBT is not a substitute for counselling either. It's more a set of techniques that allow you to identify when your thinking might be a little distorted and then gives you the tools to address the problem and hopefully gain a more balanced perspective. Anyone (with an average IQ) can use these tools, and they don't involve any counselling at all. Even psychologically healthy and well adjusted people can benefit from them, since everyone loses perspective at times. It's just another tool; like counselling is, and people can access both and do yoga as well if they wish.
This message board exists primarily for the use of the students of the Temple of Thelema, and they are all undertaking the great work and that implicitly involves working with the psyche. Sometimes people choose to aire personal matters and gain insight from the shared experiences of others. Sometimes people forget to leave their ego at the door, but eventually everyone learns something. What goes on here is not counselling, but an exchange of dialogue, opinions, knowledge, understanding and occasionally a little bit of wisdom.
In any group of people you will find people that are rude and insulting, defensive and close minded, arrogant and egotistical, woolly minded or grandiose. This may or may not feature as a psychological problem in their lives, but one thing is certain - it's only your problem if you make it your problem.
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae111/alrah/Jung_zpsef1c2cfc.jpg
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