Is the energy model dead on arrival?
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It's been a while since I read Mr. Patrick Dunn's Postmodern Magic (and I'm not at all certain what that title brings to your mind) yet a friend of mine has spent much more than a single-intense night of enflamed concentration (as I did, throwing the candle in the furnace so to speak), and he keeps coming back with bits and pieces I simply didn't let my mind caress enough to make important.
The energy model is one of these things. According to Mr. Dunn the energy model simply can't work because the human being is incapable of generating the energies necessary to effect another human being (short of say sex or intimacy or even converstation, all of which according to the energy model are complex energetic interlockings), and yet we can turn inert, mostly dead and mostly chemical food into enough power to perform amazing acts of actual work throughout each and every day, even empowering the mental capacities necessary to effectively interact with abstractions (symbols, theoretical/dogmatic correspondences et cetera et cetera et cetera), including this very post. He makes the arguement that it is impossible in the energy model to directly effect the thoughts of another person with your own energy transmissions, and he may be right (except for instance the S.I.C. mentioned before).
I think he ignored the practical effects of the chaos observations (the foundation for chaos math), the human social observations (for instance: difficult to understand feelings of great discomfort in the presence of another person or their artifacts), the quatum quasi-observations through the cosmic observations showing the frequencies of feedback mechanisms that can be altered, even ever so slightly, even by so much as a thought if it is "sent" with a great degree of intelligence (milataristically speaking) and multi-purposed affect (it increases the tendency for it's signal to propagate by offering "purposes" to the vessels it's transmitting through, a definite positive feedback effect).
Much of this can be reduced to symbols, but saying "matter" does not matter is only half the equation, according to cetain energy mechanic, a Mr. Bentov, whereas the other "half of the equation" does matter, very powerfully so, in fact it makes the concept of a matter not "mattering" possible in the first place.
Which is going a long way to say that, being a student of the observations of the outside world, I've noticed the dramatic and sudden changes in people around me, acting as if their ideas we'ren't the ideas "I"'ve been talking about or bringing into attention for quite some time (not that those are actually my "ideas", I am at least a transmitter, at most a lover of transmission). The constant "weathering" of their thought-action-reaction "truths" to mine. I seriously doubt it's a normal form of hypnotism, the subjects (they are not objects, and these weren't experiments) took a LONG time to get around to the newly entrained state.
I suppose it's no different, in principle, macroproposaurus being microproposaurus, then a heavenly body accumulating enough mass to effectively engage "fusion" and start producing radiance, while increasing it's personal gravity to re-constitute the dispersed matter around it into forms in accordance with it's true will, and as noted producing the radiance to enlightening those planetary sychophants and sybarites into producing, at various times, and in various ways the "finger tips of stellar evolution" necessary to reach out and engage other "Star's Systems" else where.
I wager 76.1$ that the same process manifests under different names through faint yet intelliigent manipulations of the self same forces involed in the Stella Familiarius.
So is the energy model dead on arrival? I say nay. How vote you?
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The thing is, I would think the "energy model" should change as our understanding of energy (and the fundamental forces of the universe) changes. Unfortunately, the majority of people involved in the esoteric that talk about "energy" are firmly mired in thinking of "energy" as the "phlogiston" model of the 19th century, the discredited notion that energy is this blobby invisible thing that is just floating around in the air around us.
93!
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You're probably right, yet didn't Donna in a Scanner Darkly define cats "as floating dripping things"?
My understanding of energy comes from a full gauntlet of courses in high school, a handful of much more difficult courses in college, and a great deal of private investigations into that area, ad hoc, since then.
Alchemy obviously gave way to a new scientific arrangement, but I fear they too have obscured the obvious fact that everything can (and in a wish: should) be communicated in clear, concise language, not that symbols are hard to master for a magician worth his essential salts & alkaloids.
So what will the next understanding of this be? Can it be put in layman's terms for the benefit of the species? Can people be seduced by their base desires into mastering acidic arts, solving all problems and distilling the perfect product?
If mass, charge, time, and space can't be defined as anything other than necessary conditions for the explanation of the "facts" then how does modern science differ from dipswitch mystics?
Isn't it all an "Art of Approximation", or as I like to feel is "Surfing the Vibrations"... Sure it's not much better than what worms do, but are we THAT DIFFERENT FROM OUR KIN?
My apologies for using "objective" terms as I "abjectively" pitch them from my "subjective" stance in this "projection". I'm using the limited amount of tools, and my limited understanding of how to use them to explain what I directly intuit to be the "crux" of the argument for the re-vivification of the late, great energy model.
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I am not familiar with the Author you mention, nor am I entirely certain as to what you mean by "energy model."
From what I gather in your post, I would say it is not dead.
While sex and conversation may be the most direct and accessible means of manipulating another persons energy there are more subtle methods.
These require a training of the individual seeking to make a change and a certain openness in the target to that change.In the case of a 'target' not willing to change it may be difficult if not impossible for a person to summon up the energy to force the change.
Such an instance may require the initiator to call upon outside powers ( say, a wand to enhance, direct and conduct a certain type of energy).Part of a rituals purpose is to focus the energies of a Magician towards a certain goal.
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If Force=MassXAccleration, then what is the force of 16 grams of psilocybe azurencens in the body of a 230 lb male hiking at roughly 3.5 miles per hour, after a full nights rest and fasting before beginning, to meet up with his sweetheart who is on an unknown variable, weighing at least 300 mgs in a female body weighing 120 lbs, who engage in some very heavy petting for 45 minutes approximately, until they both see a clear sky, at an elevation of 2,111 feet above sea level, in a high pressure system, facing NNW several minutes after sundown, early july, pacific standard time, full of "ufo"'s crossing starlanes as if it was the highway system of the cities of the future?
What is the force of those mushi mushies? A metabolic answer is acceptable.
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@Zazazas214 said
"What is the force of those mushi mushies? A metabolic answer is acceptable."
0
Being that they are inside of his body their acceleration is equal to 0, so:
F=M(A)
[psilocybe azurencens]= (16)(0)
[] = 0 -
that answer is metabolically acceptable but physically impossible, and cockstrong wrong.
The site of inception means a distribution which occurs as fast as the pulses of his frame in the actions the frame is engaged in (and I'm only looking at vascular, glandular, and neurological wave-producers). The substance is freely floating throughout the substance until the "custom's officials" of digestion enquire of their eventual intentions, which is instantly (a very short time, and a high acceleration) translated as something which is neither this or neither that, unless it is this or that, which is as clear as "good and evil" in a great many minds, grammatically.
It is not evenly distributed but has a serial submission to transmission, which in parallel processor projections dictate the every-next action of the operant "biocomputer". It thus effects the world in a myriad of myriad ways.
The only thing that can be said to defend you position is that:
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it gets digested and thus integrated into the equilibrium which is 0 (thanks to both water and grade school)
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it's exterior effects are so distant and varied as to never be noticed by the being-in-production-of-entity unless "severed" circumstances make it "obvious" as having happened in-just-such-a-way; few nervous systems are ready for even the inkling of the idea of such a state, let alone actually recieve it, as it literally would encorporate the entire universe, and make them not only mortally immortal, but immortally mortal...
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The sum total of effects is ignored because it is a sum, and not a subtraction, division or multiplication, which is plainly a "racism" in no uncertain terms. The quadrangular tetragramatton of /x-+ being in comprehensible to any but those racing for release.
and 4) "Because" being a disobedient dog, as such he is, forgoes the becoming of the dog he could be, and thus is no longer tempted by expectation, but salivates at ever impression nevertheless. (this is a mystery and should be allowed only to those who have "fallen from 3 to 4".
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If the Psilocybes are in his body, then their acceleration would be that of the acceleration of his body. An obvious one.
Another obvious one. As soon as he accelerates in his body, and the neurotransmitters from nature have reached the brain, the acceleration would multiply, gaining momentum.
Momentum probably peaks at the time he is with his girl.
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@Zazazas214 said
"that answer is metabolically acceptable but physically impossible, and cockstrong wrong. "
The person is moving at a constant speed (3.5 mph) , which physically means no acceleration.
@Zazazas214 said
"The site of inception means a distribution which occurs as fast as the pulses of his frame in the actions the frame is engaged in (and I'm only looking at vascular, glandular, and neurological wave-producers). The substance is freely floating throughout the substance until the "custom's officials" of digestion enquire of their eventual intentions, which is instantly (a very short time, and a high acceleration) translated as something which is neither this or neither that, unless it is this or that, which is as clear as "good and evil" in a great many minds, grammatically. "
This does not change the acceleration of the mushrooms.
@Zazazas214 said
"It is not evenly distributed but has a serial submission to transmission, which in parallel processor projections dictate the every-next action of the operant "biocomputer". It thus effects the world in a myriad of myriad ways."
Regardless, the relative position vectors would cancel out the force of the mushrooms, if not their effect.
@ThelemicMage said
"Another obvious one. As soon as he accelerates in his body, and the neurotransmitters from nature have reached the brain, the acceleration would multiply, gaining momentum. "
The neurotransmitters are a single part of the system.
While the neurotransmitters and their effect may accelerate, the system as a whole has 0 acceleration.@ThelemicMage said
"Momentum probably peaks at the time he is with his girl."
We do not know enough information about the relationship between him and his girlfriend to determine this.
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"The person is moving at a constant speed (3.5 mph) , which physically means no acceleration.
"what person moves at a constant speed? have you ever seen one? we can't even do it in our cars with cruise controls. Relative to every external perception is the speed over time which brings their point-relationships into spaced motions, and their subsequent neuroreflections (yes I'm straining grammar here... oi!). The given implies a context, and to derive the context from the given is an injustice to your consciousness as much as it is a ready-tried-and-true way of getting bright minds to think in lock-step, even if only relatively.
"This does not change the acceleration of the mushrooms."
Hehe, it didn't, which means I'm looking in the wrong place for the conditions! Excellent criticism!
"Regardless, the relative position vectors would cancel out the force of the mushrooms, if not their effect."
How can mere position delievered by circumstances (the vectors I post-suppose) cancel out anything? If your at the bottom of a well and your boot is on the floor, it's not necessarily capable of falling squarely at your ass is it? Yet if if you were on mushrooms this could very well happen! Thus there are transcendent factors, even fictors, which defy the classic middle-school lessons if for no other reason than they are pubescent "new truths" tired of the constant observable inanities of a world which is not even trying to form a language around their experiences... and by the time they do, well it so happens that they then become the "fudda-duddy factions" trying to impress the next vectors! Thus with this new variable of excessive and in many cases rebellious power there is something which cancels the very concept of cancellation.
"The neurotransmitters are a single part of the system.
While the neurotransmitters and their effect may accelerate, the system as a whole has 0 acceleration."How can one single serotonin molecule not be produced elsewhere from metabolic processes, tried and true in it's own inherited way, not be going somewhere as a response to some "excellsior" ion (in this case an altered alkaloid) be of so little importance to the acceleration of the mass simply because it is "inside" of it? Maybe me thinks you are like Crowley and afraid of endothermia? Methinks that was a trick laid out to them that would rather be planetary bodies than solar selves.
"We do not know enough information about the relationship between him and his girlfriend to determine this."
We know two things at least: that psilocybinesque molecules are tactile-erotic (aphrodisiace) and visuo-stimulative (intensifies the male sexual respnse (ala "beer goggles") and that they got into "heavy petting" which is can only come about through an attraction intense enough to preserve a certain constancy of performances, with both actors. Hence we have two factors which in dynamic can serve to alighten the way for even the foolish seeker to attain a truth which is not "No Knowledge"
"This is an attack on common sense principles as we learned them from faulty sources long ago taught by people only a percentage as interested in teaching us as they were in getting their next paycheck (and all that bought) and staying out of trouble (especially in relation to their money trails). This is an attack on the very ground we think we walk on, because nothing short of that, or less intense than this, could do the kind of universal justice towards this error-ridden system of systems, as it is depriving it's consciousnesses of what "error" actual has occured, how it continues to occur, and what they can do to fix it in a way which is not already deeply thought about "in error""- WFIC -
Well I'll test this in the mesocosmic level with some Isaac Newton soon (I'm sick and tired of having my only understanding of Newton having come from PBS, Jeapoardy, and the occasional nod on the various "science" channels).
"What ever happens in the context of the solution of one human brain can re-occur in approximate form in the mind of another human brain, given sufficient entrainment to the conditions, through all time dimensions and parallel spatial configurations, that is, that which governs the context of their action-reaction-response-aftermath incorporations"- WFIC
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@Zazazas214 said
"what person moves at a constant speed? have you ever seen one? we can't even do it in our cars with cruise controls."
A person who moves to the rhythm of their heart beat.
Thus, by "We" I presume thou means thee.@Zazazas214 said
"Relative to every external perception is the speed over time which brings their point-relationships into spaced motions, and their subsequent neuroreflections (yes I'm straining grammar here... oi!). The given implies a context, and to derive the context from the given is an injustice to your consciousness as much as it is a ready-tried-and-true way of getting bright minds to think in lock-step, even if only relatively.
"Everything is relative.
Defined by internal impressions.@Zazazas214 said
"How can mere position delievered by circumstances (the vectors I post-suppose) cancel out anything? If your at the bottom of a well and your boot is on the floor, it's not necessarily capable of falling squarely at your {***} is it? Yet if if you were on mushrooms this could very well happen! Thus there are transcendent factors, even fictors, which defy the classic middle-school lessons if for no other reason than they are pubescent "new truths" tired of the constant observable inanities of a world which is not even trying to form a language around their experiences... and by the time they do, well it so happens that they then become the "fudda-duddy factions" trying to impress the next vectors! Thus with this new variable of excessive and in many cases rebellious power there is something which cancels the very concept of cancellation.
"A rock falling, a rock thrown, if they try to occupy the same position in space-time they will cancel one anothers forces out.
The effect of the mushrooms is to change your perception.
While experience dictates your boot shall not "fall squarely at your ass" it would be erroneous to say that it is impossible (granted, highly improbable).
As I previously stated in another thread the imbibing of a substance to alter consciousness all ways comes with a price.
Under the influence of the mushrooms you might say you cease to limit your perceptions according to experience.
That is to say in order to "experience things a new" you sacrifice your former experiences, or at least the effect of their memory for a certain time.@Zazazas214 said
"How can one single serotonin molecule not be produced elsewhere from metabolic processes, tried and true in it's own inherited way, not be going somewhere as a response to some "excellsior" ion (in this case an altered alkaloid) be of so little importance to the acceleration of the mass simply because it is "inside" of it? Maybe me thinks you are like Crowley and afraid of endothermia? Methinks that was a trick laid out to them that would rather be planetary bodies than solar selves."
You speak of "one single serotonin molecule" as if its journey is not important.
It may mean little to you, alas, that is all the serotonin molecule knows.@Zazazas214 said
"We know two things at least: that psilocybinesque molecules are tactile-erotic (aphrodisiace) and visuo-stimulative (intensifies the male sexual respnse (ala "beer goggles") and that they got into "heavy petting" which is can only come about through an attraction intense enough to preserve a certain constancy of performances, with both actors. Hence we have two factors which in dynamic can serve to alighten the way for even the foolish seeker to attain a truth which is not "No Knowledge"
"Yes, but you are only describing external phenomenon and given no insight as to the personal nature of their relationship.
Perhaps the male loves the female, or the female loves the male, one and both.
The male may be the dominant one in the relationship, or the female.
Maybe she is just a fling for the time being, until something better comes along
Or he refuses to realize just how much he cares, afraid of being hurt once again.
It may only be my experience, that common sense is a rare, precious metal.
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"A person who moves to the rhythm of their heart beat."
A subtle acceleration of a certain mass? Perchance as the mushies are themselves a subtle mass propelled at the rate of the vascular system in proportion with the neuromuscular system?
Might certainly seem like 0, but no mortal itself-alone is nothing, that's what makes it mortal."Thus, by "We" I presume thou means thee."
Ah, caught me using the royal "we", a terribly bad habit. Good Eye Sir Uni_Verse.
"Everything is relative. Defined by internal impressions."
Everthing is relative to everything? Or everything else (two infinities relative to each other, I kinda find that fascinating). To be impressed is to be moved, which implies a force, no matter how subtle, and each force is triggered by some motion: Newton isn't dead, he's just been sent to Middle Earth.
"A rock falling, a rock thrown, if they try to occupy the same position in space-time they will cancel one anothers forces out. "
But if one thought occupies two minds can two brains parallel their own processes? That very well might be, in a positive (and hence un-neutral sense) accelerate an action. Perhaps I misunderstood your intention though; If so I am sorry.
"The effect of the mushrooms is to change your perception. While experience dictates your boot shall not "fall squarely at your {***}" it would be erroneous to say that it is impossible (granted, highly improbable). "
Is not perception a physical process, even if psychically presented?
It's also highly improbable that you can't make it from point a to point be by simply halving each distance in relation to the last. It's far more probably that you'd simply defy the mathematics- Stitched into Zeno's underwear (not many know that Zeno invented underwear... jk)
"You speak of "one single serotonin molecule" as if its journey is not important.
It may mean little to you, alas, that is all the serotonin molecule knows."Ah, I find a communication error here: The journey is not questioned (though it may be seen (I really didn't see it this way) as condescending to the poor little molecule, which knows so little it would seem. The molecule is much as the primal marathon man running towards Athens, whose whole purpose, upon which his life itself is staked as a wager for the lives of his city-kin, a heroic little thing in a much bigger world, and all I thought I mean't was that something gave it the "Go" to deliver it's message. Another subtle exchange of forces, intitiated in this instance by an alkaloid, like psilocybin.
"Yes, but you are only describing external phenomenon and given no insight as to the personal nature of their relationship.
Perhaps the male loves the female, or the female loves the male, one and both.
The male may be the dominant one in the relationship, or the female.
Maybe she is just a fling for the time being, until something better comes along
Or he refuses to realize just how much he cares, afraid of being hurt once again. "Yet so many great souls have rebuilt egyptian tombs and entire dinosaurs but from physical fragments, knowing the pattern that they would have to follow! Yes, only the externals are given, and of them but a few, aye, remember as well that she is on an unknown variable, 300 milligrams of unknown variable. Aye, again, though I feel as if I am being unfair with this unknown variable, perhaps I can say, that if kissing, their saliva would be hippy flipping.
