LBRP Divine names
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93,
I have been doing some digging on here and found a discussion on how when doing the LBRP you are standing on the samek/Peh intersection. So now the archangels make sense but the divine names don't. Why is Adonai corresponding with netzach in the ritual? Also YHVH belongs in chokmah so why is it in tiphareth?
I also don't understand the purpose of the qabalistic cross, I always thought it ws to align you within the centre of the tree of life and to bring focus to tiphareth/ the HGA.
How am I supposed to analyse this ritual qabalstically? I wanted to try on my own and dd some gematria and found some interesting correspondences but that's all, each divine name also reduced to 2 is this significant?
93's.
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@mark0987 said
"I have been doing some digging on here and found a discussion on how when doing the LBRP you are standing on the samek/Peh intersection. So now the archangels make sense but the divine names don't. Why is Adonai corresponding with netzach in the ritual? Also YHVH belongs in chokmah so why is it in tiphareth?"
The Divine Names in the LRP are related neither to the elements nor the quarters. They are solely a matter of sequence. (And, before you ask: No, I can't explain further. That's all I'm permitted to say on the matter in public.)
This has been discussed in several threads on this forum
"I also don't understand the purpose of the qabalistic cross, I always thought it ws to align you within the centre of the tree of life and to bring focus to tiphareth/ the HGA. "
Yes, it's purpose is establish the Tree of Life in your aura in a certain fashion (and vertically - in contrast to the horizontal distribution on the circle). I wouldn't define it as narrowly as you did, but neither would I disagree with you too much.
"How am I supposed to analyse this ritual qabalstically? I wanted to try on my own and dd some gematria and found some interesting correspondences but that's all, each divine name also reduced to 2 is this significant?"
I don't know how you get the 2. Their numerical values are 26, 65, 21, and 858 (or, 35 if you follow the blind in the ritual). Only two of these reduce to 2.
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93,
Thank you for your help.
"I don't know how you get the 2. Their numerical values are 26, 65, 21, and 858 (or, 35 if you follow the blind in the ritual). Only two of these reduce to 2."
Now you must forgive me if this is not the correct way to do gematria, I am too young to obtain instruction from an organisation and the books I've read seem to suggest there are no rules.
YHVH=26 2x6=12 1x2=2
ADNI=65=11 1+1=2
EHEH=21=2x1 = 2
Ateh Gibbor Le Olahm Adonai= 858 = 21 2x1 = 293's.
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@mark0987 said
"Now you must forgive me if this is not the correct way to do gematria, I am too young to obtain instruction from an organisation and the books I've read seem to suggest there are no rules.
YHVH=26 2x6=12 1x2=2
ADNI=65=11 1+1=2
EHEH=21=2x1 = 2
Ateh Gibbor Le Olahm Adonai= 858 = 21 2x1 = 2"That's a different approach than normally is called "reduction." The usual meaning would be:
YHVH=26 > 2 + 6 = 8
ADNI=65 > 6 + 5=11 > 1+1 = 2
EHEH=21 > 2 + 1 = 3
Ateh Gibbor Le Olahm Adonai= 858 > 8 + 5 + 8 = 21 > 2 + 1 = 3 -
93,
OK. Really and truly I was playing around with numbers just to try and make some sense as to why those divine names are being use. But since you said it is to do with the order, it was a waste of time. And now you've mentioned there's a secret my mind shall not rest......even if it takes me 20 years I'll figure it out lol. As far as I am aware the ritual still does it's job for me and that's the most important thing even if there is a lack of understanding.
93's.
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@mark0987 said
"Really and truly I was playing around with numbers just to try and make some sense as to why those divine names are being use."
There is a pattern from a critical pre-Zoharic literary source. I am not at liberty tell you what the pattern is (though it's possible that, with attention and intuition, you might figure it out: it's not all that hidden, especially if you think pre-Zohar).
The main point, though, is that the ritual works splendidly without having any clue about all of this. The proof is that almost no one who has ever performed this ritual has had the information on the pattern of the names, but most people who have persisted in the ritual have found that it works splendidly. (As you have observed for yourself.)
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The order is just one element. (I think I know the reason, and am not obligated by an oath, but will keep quiet just the same, since I don't know the reasons for keeping it quiet).
But if you want to explore other interesting factors, that are gematria-related, do a forum search on lbrp, pentagram, geometry. There's a very interesting thread, that is very enlightening...
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
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@Avshalom Binyamin said
"The order is just one element. (I think I know the reason, and am not obligated by an oath, but will keep quiet just the same, since I don't know the reasons for keeping it quiet).[/qupte]
You didn't ask me to explain, but I will anyway.Two people discovered the origin of this pattern 20 years ago or so (going from my memory). I received it under obligation. I requested, and was given, permission to recirculate it, provided I never passed it to anyone who wasn't a Second Order member of Temple of Thelema. I accepted the deal, and I'm keepking my promise.
I could guess at their motives, but I'm clear on mine: I promised. (And, besides, it doesn't interfere with anyone using the ritual. I am happy to dispel the common, erroneous assumption that these names are attached to the quarters themselves.)
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Thanks for the back story. Another good reason for me not sharing my guess, is that I could be completely wrong, and without you being able to confirm or deny, it could be pretty misleading.
Perhaps I'll find myself in the position of learning this firsthand one day.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
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93,
Thanks for the search words, there were some very interesting pieces of information, especially about the golden ratio.
After two hours of researching various qabalistic texts from a 'pre zohar' era (well at least the ones I could find scattered online) I give up for today. I did find a nice little website which had information on the sequence which may be the same thing however they never gave a source.
Either way, I'm not the only one who isn't sure about the pattern. I should have just stuck to the old chaos magician idea of "It doesn't matter how it works, just as long as it does.". I do have one question however; Is it likely that Mr Crowley knew the pattern?
93's.
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It is not likely that Crowley knew the underlying pattern. It was in none of the literature from which he learned initially, there is no clue I can find in his public or private writings that suggests he knew (or cared), and the work that has all the pieces wasn't translated until decades after he died - so he'd have had to read about a thousand pages of original Hebrew text to find it that way.
The ritual works by virtue of what the names are. The sequence causes actual effects.
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@mark0987 said
"93,
Thanks for the search words, there were some very interesting pieces of information, especially about the golden ratio.
After two hours of researching various qabalistic texts from a 'pre zohar' era (well at least the ones I could find scattered online) I give up for today. I did find a nice little website which had information on the sequence which may be the same thing however they never gave a source.
Either way, I'm not the only one who isn't sure about the pattern. I should have just stuck to the old chaos magician idea of "It doesn't matter how it works, just as long as it does.". I do have one question however; Is it likely that Mr Crowley knew the pattern?
93's."
Mark, I would suggest that the point is to do, perform the Ritual & observe, in order to find out through your own experience - no other source is more reliable
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93,
I have resisted looking into the Torah and the Zohar. Qabalah is by far the most complicated subject have ever looked into and yet I believe it is worth my time. Crowley stated it in Magick wthout tears and every other magician I've read has agreed that the qabalah is a necessary tool in the magicans arsenal. I'm glad I've started young, otherwise I'd never have the time to study it as in-depth as I want to.
I shall scour the internet and my friends vast repertoire of occult resources for the lectures you mentioned. He has a copy of the zohar, the book of the sign and divorced names. The latter two are by Abulafia. But first I'm going to re read Fortunes Mystical Qabalah and then Regardie's A Garden Of Pomegranates.
As for your thoughts on Thelema, I agree completely. I was very much so drawn to Hinduism and in fact Ganesh still finds his image on my altar from time to time, as does Lakshmi. However I read the first two chapters of Liber Legis and that was it, I never looked back and never will. I actually even admire the last chapter, but Nuit's is by far my favourite.
93's.
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I have a Bhudda, a Sphinx, and a totem pole.
Thank goodness for these texts and their methods of instruction, but for me, my decyphering, is to examine the subtly different meanings of the names and the corresponding states of mind each evoke, when these differences in relationship to IT/I are emphasized in the mind in turn.
The easiest one to illustrate, for me, is the difference between the final state of mind/relationship created by AGLA, "Thou art Mighty Forever, Adonai," and the others - two of which are forms of "I Am" statements that sandwich the name "Lord."
So that's the pattern I'm "decyphering." That's how I meditate on it. For what that's worth.
Peace.
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93,
It never occurred to me to meditate on them like that. Perhaps using the instructions in liber O for the god names and then analyse the feelings of each one. I found a nice explanation of each letter in the words as well like Adonai
"Aleph is air, the magick light, the pentagram and is a symbol of the elements defined and unified. Daleth is the devotion to the path that is necessary for success and which leads to the consecration of the magician to the Great Work itself. Nun, a fish, is the transformative power of the initiation of death and rebirth that is the method of the Great Work and the final Yod is Virgo, the Hermit of the Tarot and thus the Holy Guardian Angel himself. "
Source-http://ankhafnakhonsu.net/tag/yhvh/
93's.