Magick as a test for thelema
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Archaeus said
"So in practice I act as if I am a rational being whilst knowing full well that I'm either missing a screw somewhere, or am subject to occasional hallucinations or there is data that I am not privy to and so cannot make a full assessment. On some things I guess the jury is out and so the best thing to do is just find what works and do that."
One reason I think the rationalist argument is so hated is because people automatically feel as if their sanity is being called into question when we start saying their experiences aren't real. I think that's an unjustifiable conclusion to jump to, that someone must be crazy because they experience things out of the norm. I believe what distinguishes someone as a "crazy person" is what they decide to do with those experiences they are having.
Today there are many natural and neurological explanations for why people hallucinate, that don't automatically imply a state of mental illness or decay. In the end it's all about how someone integrates the experience their having.
It all depends on what the person having the experience believes about what is happening.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Archaeus said
"Numerous repeated out-of-body experiences"
These are well known phenomena that appear to be produced entirely by brains.
"Things that for want of a better word I will call spirits appearing to me at various points in life although conspicuously absent these last 3 years or so."
This could be anything from an overactive imagination to out-and-out hallucination. It's hard to say without knowing a lot more.
" nor will I out and out deny that non-organic beings might exist."
Certainly, they might exist -- in the same way that it might be true that everytime I lose a sock, it's really the case that a race of leprechuans living under my house is stealing them -- but there's no good reason to think that they do exist.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@chioa khan said
"
@Archaeus said
"So in practice I act as if I am a rational being whilst knowing full well that I'm either missing a screw somewhere, or am subject to occasional hallucinations or there is data that I am not privy to and so cannot make a full assessment. On some things I guess the jury is out and so the best thing to do is just find what works and do that."One reason I think the rationalist argument is so hated is because people automatically feel as if their sanity is being called into question when we start saying their experiences aren't real. I think that's an unjustifiable conclusion to jump to, that someone must be crazy because they experience things out of the norm. I believe what distinguishes someone as a "crazy person" is what they decide to do with those experiences they are having.
Today there are many natural and neurological explanations for why people hallucinate, that don't automatically imply a state of mental illness or decay. In the end it's all about how someone integrates the experience their having.
It all depends on what the person having the experience believes about what is happening."
An old friend and teacher of mine often says, it's not thinking that you are Napoleon that makes you mad, but if you think other people should agree with you.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Los said
"
@Archaeus said
"Numerous repeated out-of-body experiences"These are well known phenomena that appear to be produced entirely by brains.
"Things that for want of a better word I will call spirits appearing to me at various points in life although conspicuously absent these last 3 years or so."
This could be anything from an overactive imagination to out-and-out hallucination. It's hard to say without knowing a lot more.
" nor will I out and out deny that non-organic beings might exist."
Certainly, they might exist -- in the same way that it might be true that everytime I lose a sock, it's really the case that a race of leprechuans living under my house is stealing them -- but there's no good reason to think that they do exist."
Exactly my points in a nutshell. The human brain can do all sorts of weird things, possibly even project its own consciousness beyond its physical confines? Who's to say?
I did a lot of acid as a teenager so I realize that minute chemical changes can modify my perception of reality drastically. To me this says only that my body is the house of the Holy Spirit.
I guess the main thing I personally draw from it is a sense of wonder, and as I hope you'll agree, this is something that we should never allow the tyranny of the Ruach to destroy.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Archaeus said
"
@Takamba said
"
@Archaeus said
"
That place between rationality and lunacy is where the magick happens."So, in effect, you still advocate "walking between two worlds?""
Depends on what you mean exactly?"
Whatever do you mean "between rationality and lunacy?" I mean that, in effect, is still the Wiccan way of "walking between two worlds." Would you agree?
ps. Nothing wrong with a Wiccan really. Each is on the chart where ever they are on the chart at any given time, and each will grow as they will.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
No, thinking you are napoleon would make you mad.
That was my point. If the person believes it is something nonsense, than they are the one suffering delusion. I have never believed my experiences were something nonsense because I equipped myself with the best knowledge available before I started going down the path of self induced hallucinations. I was very aware of the pandoras box I was opening.
I could never think it was a goblin because every experience I've had like that I just said to myself "that was interesting, that psychological projection from my mind." I suppose I'm fortunate that these hallucinations have never come in the form of "you are the chosen one, the messiah" or anything like that. Mostly just made up of the content of my own mind stuff.
I read your post about your experiences, there are very good reasons to think nothing supernatural occurred. You were either high on drugs, in a self induced trance, dreaming, etc. All several good reasons to think it was something neurological/psychological. Nothing in your post seems to indicate any new information that would make me think there are "wider possibilities" or "non-organic beings", no matter how convincing the experience. Just means that maybe you have a lot of "content" knocking around your head to make for some interesting times.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Los said
"This could be anything from an overactive imagination to out-and-out hallucination. It's hard to say without knowing a lot more. "
What if you are yourself an hallucination?
It will not necessarly destroy it to believe in goblins.
They might be more real than any one of us !
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Archaeus said
"An old friend and teacher of mine often says, it's not thinking that you are Napoleon that makes you mad, but if you think other people should agree with you."
Err, gotta disagree with that one. If a guy seriously thinks he's Napoleon, I'd say that makes him mad.
"I guess the main thing I personally draw from it is a sense of wonder, and as I hope you'll agree, this is something that we should never allow the tyranny of the Ruach to destroy."
I'm all for a sense of wonder, but I can't help but feel that it's a paltry mind indeed that needs to believe in spooks, number games, and hocus pocus to feel "wonder."
There's plenty of wonder out here in the real world. If you've ever looked into the stars at night and realized how many billions of them there are, how far away they are, and how long ago they were in many cases...if you ever contemplated how thirteen billion years has given rise to this vast universe that couldn't care less about the fate of some race of overgrown monkeys on some backwoods planet in the middle of nowhere...if you ever really grasped the magnificent indifference of the cosmic ballet....
...I find it hard to see how someone could really see all of that, but prefer to seek out "wonder" in the tiny nutshell kingdom of his own mind, where spooks and spirits help you find lost objects and give you asinine number puzzles so you can feel extra spiffy.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Takamba said
"
That place between rationality and lunacy is where the magick happens.So, in effect, you still advocate "walking between two worlds?"
Whatever do you mean "between rationality and lunacy?" I mean that, in effect, is still the Wiccan way of "walking between two worlds." Would you agree?
ps. Nothing wrong with a Wiccan really. Each is on the chart where ever they are on the chart at any given time, and each will grow as they will."
In that case then my basic standpoint is as follows:
I know full well that what I'm doing is nuts, invoking a God here or an angel there (although in truth since I got past a certain point I don't really feel the need to do that very much).
Yet I also find that invoking in this way is on occasion useful, it does something to me on a level that my rationality cannot approach, it stirs something within me, something basic and instinctual that doesn't give a damn about what is 'real' or 'unreal'.In the midst of a ritual, or even an initiation ceremony part of me is sniggering at the craziness of it, while another par of me laps at the dew of heaven; each knows better than to bother the other, and so I come to equilibrium.
Between the worlds is one way to put it I suppose; but I prefer to call myself a pragmatist than a rationalist.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@Los said
"
@Archaeus said
"An old friend and teacher of mine often says, it's not thinking that you are Napoleon that makes you mad, but if you think other people should agree with you."Err, gotta disagree with that one. If a guy seriously thinks he's Napoleon, I'd say that makes him mad.
"I guess the main thing I personally draw from it is a sense of wonder, and as I hope you'll agree, this is something that we should never allow the tyranny of the Ruach to destroy."
I'm all for a sense of wonder, but I can't help but feel that it's a paltry mind indeed that needs to believe in spooks, number games, and hocus pocus to feel "wonder."
There's plenty of wonder out here in the real world. If you've ever looked into the stars at night and realized how many billions of them there are, how far away they are, and how long ago they were in many cases...if you ever contemplated how thirteen billion years has given rise to this vast universe that couldn't care less about the fate of some race of overgrown monkeys on some backwoods planet in the middle of nowhere...if you ever really grasped the magnificent indifference of the cosmic ballet....
...I find it hard to see how someone could really see all of that, but prefer to seek out "wonder" in the tiny nutshell kingdom of his own mind, where spooks and spirits help you find lost objects and give you asinine number puzzles so you can feel extra spiffy."
How can you prove he's not Napoleon?
What is "Napoleon" as such?
Isnt "madness" a political thing, a religious thing...?!
I agree with the wonders of nature... But isnt our own mind a part of it?
Why separate them? The only reason i see to do so is as it is done in religion, where you worship an external god, which can be good until the black phase of alchemy is done enough.
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.
@chioa khan said
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@Archaeus said
"The human brain can do all sorts of weird things, possibly even project its own consciousness beyond its physical confines? Who's to say?"I'm sorry dude, but here is where we will disagree. There is no reason to think this. None.
"I did a lot of acid as a teenager so I realize that minute chemical changes can modify my perception of reality drastically. To me this says only that my body is the house of the Holy Spirit. "
Wow you must have had some good acid. I did plenty of the stuff in my time, but obviously we came to different conclusions.
"I guess the main thing I personally draw from it is a sense of wonder, and as I hope you'll agree, this is something that we should never allow the tyranny of the Ruach to destroy."
How on earth is your sense of wonder destroyed by seeing the delusions and ego games for what they are? I find it very liberating. The sun sets still fill me with that sense of awe. I still get it looking up at the night sky."
In which case I think you actually missed my point entirely. Whats the point of destroying your delusions if you go and put others in there place?
My sense of wonder does not rely on hallucinations, but on the fact that these things keep me from deluding myself that i know what the hell is going on in the Universe. The fact remains that I haven't a clue about the ultimate reality if any, that lies beyond what our paltry brains and sensory organs can process, and that fills me with wonder.Also, I wonder if you think I mean something else when I say 'Holy Spirit', because admittedly that is a pretty loaded phrase and one that I won't venture to interpret for anybody else.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Meditating on my experiences with magick, something strikes me. My (stricly magick)power is not consistant, it vaciliates a lot. I had some very intense things happening, which i believe are way above my level. On the other hand, it happened to me to struggle with some basics for a very long time.
So, basically, my point is by observing when the magick is strong, according to context and goal(what the magick is applied onto), it can help a lot to get closer to the true will.
For a long time i didnt see it that way. I thought i was just supposed to work all things equally, whatever the context. And i think it had two interelated flaws. The one is frustration, the other is delusion.
Now i try to use magick as a test of will. I think if it works, there is a good reason for it, even if i dont get it yet. If it doesnt, there's a good reason also.
In sourate "al layl", it is said the closer you get to God, the more it makes it easy for you to achieve whats good for you. It says also, the more far you get from God, the more he makes it easy for you to achieve what's bad for you.
So, this at the same time confirms what i say, and tells the limit and danger of it. If you're in a really bad state or period, or just arent in the path at all, the "test using magick" may work backwards, in an evil way.
So it could be a big help to think about this, and trying to always seek balance between magick, thelema, and mystical achievement. And use them in a synergic fashion.
What would be the first step(grade, sephirah..) in the tree of life where you're supposed to be ok with this issue? I mean, when your faith is strong and consistant enough to just let go, and use magick as a consistantly reliable test to get closer to true will? Any other thought concerning this stuff?
Love is the law, love under will.