OTO and Golden Dawn
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If money was a factor, why not ! I'm sure though it is secondary, the prophet himself wouldnt have mixed thelema with something commercial, especially as we know his opinion on such practices. If it worked commercialy for him it is bonus. Like in the martial arts. Good teachers of good systems can earn enough to live well but in no way it gets as such in the way of ethics which are clearly non commercial. It is almost free for the student. But for instance 50 bucks per month if you have 100 students, or even 50, thats good(there are expenses).
And if he asked money to people when in need it is surely an independant thing, whether they'd be OTO members or not. What amazes me is he actually needed to ask money. People should have given him in advance always so he doesnt even have to think about it. But i guess it was part of his ordeals
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Let's not confuse crowley the man and To mega therion etc.
I have my views on crowley the man which isn't to be honest always great and yes there is lots of lies said about the man that are just plain wrong but I try never confuse the two.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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93,
"I suppose he means the point of history: The Order called the Golden Dawn, which Crowley joined in 1887, ceased to exist in 1900."
This is true, but many of the followers went off and started their own groups. I don't see how this is any different to what has happened with the various a.'.a.'. lineages. (Other than their teaching methods and structure of course).
I wouldn't call it dead, people can be initiated into the golden dawn as well as the other groups. Regardie himself belonged to A.'.A.'. and later an off-branch of the golden dawn. I have no idea if he was involved in the O.T.O, but I assume he was. I would also argue that initiates of the golden dawn are still publishing valuable material.
93, 93/93.
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I think it's better to say that people can be initiated into groups that are GD-inspired, GD-derived, GD-descended, GD-like, etc. Regardie belonged to the Stella Maturing, not the Golden Dawn. The Order called Golden Dawn to which Crowley belonged ceased to exist in 1900. Paul Case belonged to the Alpha et Omega, as did Crowley and Cecil Jones after the schism. Etc.
As I said, it's a historical point. In other ways, it doesn't matter. One might as well get one's definitions right, though.
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@Thelemic oz said
"Let's not confuse crowley the man and To mega therion etc.
I have my views on crowley the man which isn't to be honest always great and yes there is lots of lies said about the man that are just plain wrong but I try never confuse the two. "Yes ! Sure.
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@Vadox said
"I meant that GD's tree of life is no longer active as initiatory system, it means that people start from OTTO octave(?) and latter goes into AA octave."
"OTO octave?" (I think that's what you mean.)
Tree of Life not valid?
Au contraire, if by "octave" you mean the way the Tree interfaces with the Four Worlds, I've seen wondrous things happening reliably for decades using the framework on which the GD structure hangs.
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I dont put orders to four worlds, but if its right then oto is yetziratic and aa is briatic. I tend to do conclusions to early, but just a couple months before i had practicus and death for a half year and now i got malkuth and world. So it starts all over again from the bottom thats what i meant by octave and my moon still needs to adapt to new enviroument.
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@Vadox said
"I dont put orders to four worlds, but if its right then oto is yetziratic and aa is briatic."
This, of course, depends on what part of each you mean. OTO operates almost exclusively in Assiah - its design, how its rituals were engineered to have an effect etc., relies on Assiah. A.'.A.'. operates in Briah beginning with 5=6, and before that in Yetzirah (and, for 0=0 and 1=10, the aspirant's static state is Assiah working to open up to Yetzirah).