Tolerance vs intolerence
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I did check out the link, read it twice. I agree with it for the most part. I disagreed with the line about constipation, as ime and training depression can cause distress in the whole GI tract, and is not limited to constipation, but other GI issues as well. But that is neither here nor there really in the topic at hand of tolerance and intolerance.
Curious, you were googling something on the net, and came across this article and thought "hey this has some sort of relevance to that thread on TOT" and shared it.?
I guess I don't see what motivated you to share that,
So I am left guessing....Does Kasper want me to know that when I see irritated people they may be depressed, and be the intolerant sort, so I should steer clear?
Or as a personal mode of behavior modi faction, are you saying we all should watch our emotional swings, so that when we become irritated we understand that we are likely to swing our pendulum to the intolerant side, thus becoming disequiliberated?
I do see a keen relationship between irritation and intolerance, which if not corrected could bring about significant biochemical changes, thus giving a diagnosis of clinical depression.
I know personally many clinically depressed people, and have had many people come to me for aid to help them overcome this. There are solid ways to overcome this temporary slump, ie eating right, excersize, fresh air, sunshine, mantras, prayer, service, sex......and there are solid ways to change this if it is a genetic unfolding in which the person is not producing The deal amount of neurotransmitters.
But this issue of tolerance and intolerance appears to me to be a path that some aggressively pursue by choice. Some people hate another person simp,y on the basis of skin color, body style, sexual path, economics, and who knows what else. To me that choice is more likely based on fear and ignorance then being a clinically depressed person.
To me that is a way to bandaid and say, see I don't have a choice, I can't do anything about this, I am destined/fated/created this way, and their is nothing I can do to change, even if I wanted too.Do you want to have a conversation about this Kasper? You have a habit of plopping down reading material on my desk, and not saying much about it at all. If you want to talk about these findings and share your interoperation and insights I am all ears, but truthfully I have way then enough reading material, and not enough people willing to exchange ideas with.
So, care to talk or just hit me with your one liners?
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I think that this topic needs much more conversation, so I suppose I am attempting to use his brief comment as a spring board to develop this thread topic more, to in courage feedback, ideas and conversation.
From what I have come to understand people who gravitate to the concepts of Thelema on the whole are much more tolerant of diversity, exploration and experimentation. Now maybe some people are born that way, but maybe some people are taught tolerance as well.
In my life the roles that I have played have given me some interesting insights into tolerance my own tolerances and tolerance of my behaviors on interpersonal relationships. as a daughter, sister, mother, gardener, animal trainer, teacher just to name a few, those relationships have shown me how much chaos I can put up with, (ie how big a pile of laundry gets before I get to wash it, how many muddy footprints tracked on the floor before I get to mop, how many cups of coffee can I drink before I am just a jittery mess. Ect Ect).
I feel like sometimes I am just talking at people, not with them. Well that's like me just jerking off in public, I'm sure some won't care, some will love it, but others will call the cops. That's not a discussion, and I truly believe that it is through effective conversation that new things will arise.
So, yea I do give Kasper credit because he at least attempted to keep this thread going, which considering there are about 2000 members on this board, is worthy of some credit.
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Perhaps there's cause behind why (as you perceive) those into Thelema are more tolerant of diversity than others. I'm not judging your perception as accurate or inaccurate, but for the sake of discussion let's assume it is accurate.
Thelemites would be more likely to be tolerant of diversity, as I see things, because one of the things I have learned from studying Thelema is to not be enslaved by ideas. This is not that,and I am not that. For instance, you say "as a daughter, sister, mother, gardener, animal trainer, teacher," you've learned things. That's you identifying with the ideas. Me? I am a person who sometimes fathers, sometimes teaches, sometimes does gardening. If you attack gardeners in your opinions, fathers, teachers, you aren't attacking me - so I'm okay with you having an opinion. I can tolerate you because my tolerance level is set pretty high by not being locked in some "samsara" that these labels actually matter.
Tolerance, I suppose, relates to how personal you take something. If it isn't personal, you can tolerate anything.
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Of course, most (not all) people attracted to Thelema are outsiders - in particular, are outside of the mainstream of their families and communities.
This is exactly the type of person that is more likely than not to vote for diversity and tolerance of "all types."
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Life is full of these interesting crises, where the karma (cause and effect) of our choices erupts into something that makes us stop and reconsider our beliefs about ourselves, and our role in the universe.
I'm hearing you ask questions about just how much you should put up with in your life, and the fact that you are conflicted and reconsidering the mix indicates that it's a good time to stop and reconsider the mix.
At the root of the situations we find ourselves in, there are our beliefs. If we can drill down to a level where we can state those beliefs simply, we can decide whether those beliefs are in line with treating ourselves with honor and dignity.
Change those, and we change our reality.
I think where tolerance comes in, is that it teaches us that there are infinite options on the table. We can be grateful for, and tolerant of, all the options the universe gives us to experiment and learn about ourselves. We can tolerate that there are always people around who are more than willing to show us what the results of or beliefs looks like.
It would be a terrible universe if there weren't people taking other people for granted, expecting them to clean up their messes for them, and not listening to them when they talked. How else could a person experience that, and decide whether they liked it?
Tolerance doesn't mean that you have to keep running an experiment.
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@Takamba said
"
Tolerance, I suppose, relates to how personal you take something. If it isn't personal, you can tolerate anything."Most excellent observation! I completely agree.
I was just outside doing yard work, and the sun was so strong I could feel it burning up my skin and pulling the water out of me.
I couldn't tolerate it, so I had to stop and come in out of the heat.
Yet I know of magi and yogis who do incredible feats, miracles even...being burried alive, waking on hot coals, not eating for months.......they have the art of not taking anything personal mastered to such a degree.I have read of incredible feats in the natural world, where frogs in a drought stricken region will hibernate for decades or longer, where insects are frozen solid only to become reanimate upon thaw ( in fact I read about how space itself is be speckled with frozen bacteria just waiting to be revived with warmth and wetness), Yet these creatures are not people, so they obviously don't take things personally.....there driving force simply seems to be and to perpetuate.
But it seems humans, at least this one, has some factor that inclines oneself to take certain things on a personal level. Something that makes one say....I know I can do anything, but I need to differentiate what I will.
Which is most likely the place where we impose self restraint, limitations, boundaries and thresholds. It appears as if it is some sort of evolutionary survival mechanism humans have so that we could withstand all of potentialities the cosmos could throw at us.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Of course, most (not all) people attracted to Thelema are outsiders - in particular, are outside of the mainstream of their families and communities.
This is exactly the type of person that is more likely than not to vote for diversity and tolerance of "all types.""
I can honestly admit to being outside the mainstream, I try to break my own enslavements, and I vote too.
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@kasper81 said
"AOD you seem interested in this link
io am thinking of the John Cleese character Basil Fawlty. he is the epitome of intolerance and irritability and Cleese has talked about this as a portrayal of a depressed man: yes it's comedy but so much comedy is tragi-comedy. I find this interesting as we tend to associate depression with being slumped, quiet and frowning"
( note:below I meant to type shining not shunning, didn't catch the auto correct)
I was more interested in hearing your ideas about it truthfully.I observed something I though was interesting, and I was going to mention it. Your last sentence actually touches on it.
In my studies of yoga asana and ways to correct imbalances in the physical body one of the hardest changes many people have is in regards to this slumping, shut down, and depressed stances is how the shoulders are carried. I have observed that it is almost chronic that humans carry their shoulders rolling forward, like a slump....covering their heart, head and chin tucked. It is a very disempowering stance, one that I feel perpetuates depression, irritability and intolerance.
We are taught that the very best posture to start retraining the body to correct alignment is simply standing, or tadasana posture. In this pose the shoulders are rolled back and many use the visual aid of imagining the heart shunning out, allowing the release of the diaphragm, the neck muscles release, the palms are open, receptivly outward, the chin is lifted and the head aligned with the spine......which then allows the pelvic bowl to be level, the hips stacked under the shoulders, feet straight...I know from my own imbalances and holding patterns that when I am mindful of how my shoulders are being held, I can see how my thoughts, beliefs and perceptions manifest on my physical body.