A Petition on please-do-not-change-the-book-of-the-law
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hmm. Interesting. I finally decided to look at The Law is For All (New Falcon, 1996, 1998) and on page 166 Crowley comments
"Stanza 3 suggests the Rosicrucian Benediction:
May thy Mind be open unto the Higher!
May thy Heart be the Centre of Light!
May thy Body be the Temple of the Rosy Cross."(Later, in footnote, he writes "These are the words of the Reception of the Adeptus Minor 5°=6° ritual of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.")
Sounds a lot like "fill me" was Crowley's accepted version when he wrote this long commentary (1919-1922 somewheres).
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93,
Thanks Kasper.
On the Petition:
I would just like to say that I would appreciate any idea's, pointers, criticisms etc. that people care to make that would improve the petition.
At the moment we are reaching a saturation point in the English speaking online community. We've all been talking about H.B.'s proposed change for over a week now... or is it two? But anyway - people are starting to get frustrated which is perfectly understandable. At the same time, I'm still encountering people who hear about the matter for the first time because of the petition and are shocked. These folks are less involved in online Thelemic communities, and they need to be reached the old fashioned way.
The petition continues to gain support - slowly and surely, but our coverage now needs to be spread to non-english as a first language communities. I would appreciate any bilingual volunteers to help spread the word of the change to Liber AL and this petition opposing the change. You can contact me at: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:alra@live.co.uk">alra@live.co.uk</a><!-- e -->
Other notes.... eventually this issue is going to die down and H.B. may succeed for a short time in waiting out the storm. However - the first time a Minerval refuses to swear on a changed copy and get's turned away then its going to flare right back up again. Or the first time that a reading of Liber AL is performed and the individual reads 'fill me' and is censored for it and protests - we'll see the matter rekindled and inevitably it will carry more force and fire to it. There are a number of future potential flash-points that I can see coming so if we have to then this campaign will be continued in the long term until the issue is resolved to our Thelemic satisfaction. We may lose the initial battle only to go on and win the war. As brothers fight ye! On the other hand, Bill Breeze might take a moment, reconsider, and declare that he isn't going to change the Book after all. He could do that tomorrow and shock everyone. It is a true mark of Thelemic freedom and attainment when a person reserves the right for themselves to change their minds, without feeling any loss of face or honour. Infact - I honour those that retain this ability and right for themselves doubly so.
If that is what happens then there's no harm and no foul. There would even have been an upside to the kurfuffle, in that it has attracted the attention of new people to Thelema, and essentially that is one of H.B.'s main tasks... to promulgate the law.
Best, Alrah. 93 93/93.
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Re - bilingual speakers. Update... this afternoon we have Spanish, Tagalog and something called 'Ilongal'(?) covered. (I don't know how to spell it - but apparently it's a language of the Far East.) Thank you to our volunteers! Still looking for Italian, German, Chinese etc.
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@Alrah said
"Re - bilingual speakers. Update... this afternoon we have Spanish, Tagalog and something called 'Ilongal'(?) covered. (I don't know how to spell it - but apparently it's a language of the Far East.) Thank you to our volunteers! Still looking for Italian, German, Chinese etc."
Maybe if you translated it into Enochian, that would be sufficient.
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@Takamba said
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@Alrah said
"Re - bilingual speakers. Update... this afternoon we have Spanish, Tagalog and something called 'Ilongal'(?) covered. (I don't know how to spell it - but apparently it's a language of the Far East.) Thank you to our volunteers! Still looking for Italian, German, Chinese etc."Maybe if you translated it into Enochian, that would be sufficient."
After the Tibetan practice, I would need 6 more volunteers to chant it though.
Perhaps I ought to set up a holy order that is dedicated specifically to the guardianship of the unchanging word of the changing gospel? Give me 9 months...
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@Alrah said
"Perhaps I ought to set up a holy order that is dedicated specifically to the guardianship of the unchanging word of the changing gospel? Give me 9 months..."
I don't think Aurum Solis is using "Order of the Sacred Word" (O.S.V. in Latin) any longer.
Back in the Grady and Phyllis combat days, I used to joke that it was the war of the Gradyites and Phyllistines. I could release Fillistines for your use.
"No More Kill!" would draw millions of signators who hadn't a clue what they were signing. But really, nothing cuts through it more directly than "Kill The Kill." The K.T.K.!
(For the record, I'm joking. But it satisfied my need for a burst of fun. Working on my RockStar before we had out to see Iron Man 3. Good-morning, everyone.)
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Alrah said
"Perhaps I ought to set up a holy order that is dedicated specifically to the guardianship of the unchanging word of the changing gospel? Give me 9 months..."I don't think Aurum Solis is using "Order of the Sacred Word" (O.S.V. in Latin) any longer.
Back in the Grady and Phyllis combat days, I used to joke that it was the war of the Gradyites and Phyllistines. I could release Fillistines for your use.
"No More Kill!" would draw millions of signators who hadn't a clue what they were signing. But really, nothing cuts through it more directly than "Kill The Kill." The K.T.K.!
(For the record, I'm joking. But it satisfied my need for a burst of fun. Working on my RockStar before we had out to see Iron Man 3. Good-morning, everyone.)"
lololol Jim. Kill the Kill it is!
Damn... there's no reason why a campaign can't be fun. But I'd like to see you in latex now...
Morning!
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I first wanted to thank those who commented on the link I provided and cleared some things up.
I also wanted to comment that, in my opinion, "fill" contains the implication of "kill" in this particular instance and then some.
So, I feel by changing it to "kill" you loose something.
If anything, they should put a foot note that "fill" may actually be "kill" - changing the actual printing is going a bit far. -
@Alrah said
"lololol Jim. Kill the Kill it is!
Damn... there's no reason why a campaign can't be fun. "Just be careful, since it's only 30 seconds to Mars.
"But I'd like to see you in latex now...
"After losing 30+ pounds a year ago, I must admit that this could, conceivably, once more be a pleasant sight
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"the style of the letter isn't being changed. Only the letter is being changed."
I can't resist pointing this out, sorry. After reading about it more, I saw that AC had turned the "f" into a "k" by penciling over the letter. Isn't this then "changing the style of a letter", and strangely accurate in terms of the book predicting this? I can't shake how uncanny it is that this whole thing resembles what the book itself seems to talk about, and warn against.
In addition, looking over the written pages of the Ms, I see ironically that the last part of the note AC made saying use the paraphrase etc., ends with the quote "fill me". It certainly looks like "fill" to me, and he is told to keep the original in the writing of the beast, and this is what is there, ultimately in his writing.
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@Jason R said
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"the style of the letter isn't being changed. Only the letter is being changed."I can't resist pointing this out, sorry. After reading about it more, I saw that AC had turned the "f" into a "k" by penciling over the letter. Isn't this then "changing the style of a letter", and strangely accurate in terms of the book predicting this? I can't shake how uncanny it is that this whole thing resembles what the book itself seems to talk about, and warn against.
In addition, looking over the written pages of the Ms, I see ironically that the last part of the note AC made saying use the paraphrase etc., ends with the quote "fill me". It certainly looks like "fill" to me, and he is told to keep the original in the writing of the beast, and this is what is there, ultimately in his writing."
Hey Jason... I just want to say again that although I dislike and doubt the story of the reception and feel Crowley had ulterior motives for such a thing.... I do not doubt that he was an excellent prophet and clairvoyant... capable of navigating the timelines to see in to the future and influence the events of today.
Time... is not the way we think it is. Everything happens at once. Prophets are the people that are more like navigators in the river of time.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Alrah said
"lololol Jim. Kill the Kill it is! Damn... there's no reason why a campaign can't be fun. "Just be careful, since it's only 30 seconds to Mars. "
Good beginnings for me... since Mars and the North node are rather close.
"
"But I'd like to see you in latex now..."After losing 30+ pounds a year ago, I must admit that this could, conceivably, once more be a pleasant sight
" If you've been pulling weighs as well, you could be our 'Iron Man'. -
"Hey Jason... I just want to say again that although I dislike and doubt the story of the reception and feel Crowley had ulterior motives for such a thing.... I do not doubt that he was an excellent prophet and clairvoyant... capable of navigating the timelines to see in to the future and influence the events of today.
Time... is not the way we think it is. Everything happens at once. Prophets are the people that are more like navigators in the river of time."
Hey Alrah!
Yeah, either way, I feel the book mentioning the changing of the style of a letter, just seems too perfect to this situation. I feel that alone should hold a lot of weight in the decision. Well at least from my humble opinion, but I'm a "believer" in the original story. I feel however, that things like this (regardless of how it comes out) seem to back up the original claim.
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Hey J - I've evolved a bit recently and although I don't personally believe the reception mythos then I think as long as you watch out for the obvious pitfalls of cognitive dissonance and social conformity dynamics around a shared mythos, then believing in the reception myth per se is probably fine. I mean... I believe that a huge ball of thermonuclear fusion outside possesses consciousness, and some people think that's wack, no matter how much I talk about the implications of the Orch OR model. I'm still happy with the idea though.
Petition Update: Today we've added translations of the petition into Tagalog, German and Dutch, with plenty more to come. Thank you again to our volunteers for helping to make this petition an international affair as we roll out a new wave of activism.
93's! -
@Alrah said
"Hey J - I've evolved a bit recently and although I don't personally believe the reception mythos then I think as long as you watch out for the obvious pitfalls of cognitive dissonance and social conformity dynamics around a shared mythos, then believing in the reception myth per se is probably fine. I mean... I believe that a huge ball of thermonuclear fusion outside possesses consciousness, and some people think that's wack, no matter how much I talk about the implications of the Orch OR model. I'm still happy with the idea though.
Petition Update: Today we've added translations of the petition into Tagalog, German and Dutch, with plenty more to come. Thank you again to our volunteers for helping to make this petition an international affair as we roll out a new wave of activism.
93's!"Its fine with me if anyone doesn't believe in it. I actually had strong doubt for MANY years, but then I found the numbers I talked about in the Tablet, and I had to face it was just highly unlikely by chance, and accident. Something put it there. That's MY opinion. If I was more educated in statistics, I would try to prove or reveal how unlikely it is. I can't. No one has to agree, and I know it doesn't matter if they do, but it's enough for me, and that's whats important. I do wish I could share it with others and be able to explore it with those who know more. It just ain't happenin lol. Anyway, thank you for understanding my point of view.
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hello..
i am a big fan and lurker of this forum---for a long time now..
i've always chosen to never post---but to be a student..
but this situation--seems like maybe i should throw in some info.
i am probably the craziest/most trolling 911 truther on the net.
"911 was an inside job"---attacking and studying---a peaceful world revolution against the u.n. for doing 911. and instilling "political correctness" as orwellian thought control b.s.anyway---i'm telling you guys---this is the oto bowing to "political correctness"---cuz technically the u.n. supports crowley--cuz they think its atheistic or dont understand it or whatever---thats the way its been--thats why he's on the beatles sgt pepper album with all the other "pc" prophets.
its ok if you dont want to agree with those points.
the big point is that the oto are being "wussies" and are bowing to the bad guys(filling but not "killing" if i understand correctly)
i think that the commies (un) are noticing that alot of black sabbath fans(crowley related) are starting to turn into conspiracy theorists--so now there is more scrutiny on crowley texts
basically there is a world internet/"entertainment" propaganda program---where the individual has to be unempowered in all situations---to the pc agenda
kind of an example is ---remember how elvis was "king"---well there cant be any kings anymore----nowadays the msm celebrities have to teach scripted pc situations to the "unwashed pig masses"--
so the word "kill" is too individually empowering--and cannot be part of official "un approved" bullshit
anyways this might be a call to action for jim and you guys =to preserve the true essence of the thelema---from the douchebags who want to try to keep it in check
anyways--i so dig you guys----good luck to yall in the future--
be true through whatever "conflicts" arise in this world
shine on!!
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You know, you have the whole kill/full thing backwards (the oto is changing it to "kill")... so...
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@Alrah said
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Hey Jason... I just want to say again that although I dislike and doubt the story of the reception and feel Crowley had ulterior motives for such a thing.... I do not doubt that he was an excellent prophet and clairvoyant... capable of navigating the timelines to see in to the future and influence the events of today.Time... is not the way we think it is. Everything happens at once. Prophets are the people that are more like navigators in the river of time."
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q648/Takamba93/ProphetDefined_zpsd24e0497.jpg
Not fortune teller!
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93 Takamba,
Good point. Even IF we say he was psychic, I think this quote says a lot about that as well regarding the book of the law and what it "predicts".
"How could he prove that he was of a kind superior to any of the human race, and so entitled to speak with authority? Evidently he must show Knowledge and Power such as no man has ever been known to posses.
2. He showed his Knowledge chiefly by the use of cipher or cryptogram in certain passages to set forth recondite facts,** including some events which had yet to take place, such that no human being could possibly be aware of them.."**Here AC seems to suggest no human being could possibly know about these future events. This seems to leave out the possibility of a psychic ability being used (by him at least) as a basis for the predictions.
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@Jason R said
"93 Takamba,
Good point. Even IF we say he was psychic, I think this quote says a lot about that as well regarding the book of the law and what it "predicts".
"How could he prove that he was of a kind superior to any of the human race, and so entitled to speak with authority? Evidently he must show Knowledge and Power such as no man has ever been known to posses.
2. He showed his Knowledge chiefly by the use of cipher or cryptogram in certain passages to set forth recondite facts,** including some events which had yet to take place, such that no human being could possibly be aware of them.."**Here AC seems to suggest no human being could possibly know about these future events. This seems to leave out the possibility of a psychic ability being used (by him at least) as a basis for the predictions."
Plus, and to remind you, I've pointed this out before, and I'm paraphrasing because I won't take the time to look for the specific quote, Crowley says there are (at least) three criteria for a prediction and the first criteria is that it must be declared a prediction before the fact of the event it predicts. Your fascination with the exactitude with which this "style of a letter" takes place is not made in Liber L as a prediction, but a commandment. By your logic, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" predicted Moses exiting the mount and finding his people worshiping Ba'al as predictive when in fact it was not a prediction, but a commandment.