Last resort magic?
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@kasper81 said
"What a bunch of mystical crap that was. Honourable, but mystical. Karma? Past lives? Are you real?"
Here's the deal, kasper. I hear you. Honestly, I do. When I was your age, my mind worked in very much the same way that yours seems to. In a lot of ways, it still does. I don't take any "mystical crap" on faith. I don't "believe" anything. I test every assumption. But that means also testing all of the assumptions that seem obvious and comfortable and axiomatic.
In the intervening decade or so I have experimented a lot on my mind. I have pushed myself to the limits of endurance, I've tested the boundaries of social acceptance, I've chemically altered it and nutritionally deprived it. I've lived the life of a prince and I've spent some time on the street. I took the advice of Robert Anton Wilson (which is captured in my signature from "Through the Looking-Glass") and I have pushed myself to believe, truly believe, in a wide range of "mystical crap" for definite periods of time for the purposes of learning from the experience.
These were all experiments, designed to break down my comfortable, scientifically testable conceptions of consensus-reality in order to get at a better understanding of actual reality. In doing so, I have come to a very solid and very wide-ranging understanding of the term "karma" that in no way resembles the dime-store mystical guidebook feel-good definition that you seem to want to denigrate. Similar with "past lives". Those terms are loaded, I know, but if you want to accuse Laura of creating straw men, best be sure you're not doing the same.
My conclusions (as they exist thus far in my research) don't exactly line up with Meral's which is why I didn't quote the rest of her editorial. But, as far as the two paragraphs I did quote, they do fit within my larger conception of the universe (as it exists thus far in my research). Perhaps someday I will have an epiphany and understand how the rest of her editorial reflects actual reality in a way that was previously hidden from me. Perhaps I will forever be of my current mindset that she gave more credence to "mystical crap" than was due. For now, I'm agnostic on the matter.
As to your final question, "Are you real?": I don't have an answer to that one yet either. The twenty-something version of myself, on the verge of falling down the easy slope into concrete Objectivism probably did. The current version of myself is having a much harder time getting what I'm now aware of to fit within any consensus-accepted definition of "real". I've been able to expand my understanding of "real" to hold what it needs to but I'm pretty sure that definition is not the one you're using here.
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Going way back to the original OP question.
A friend of mine (sadly these days we meet less then once a year) said:
"A poor Magickian is a poor Magickian".
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can sometimes force us to perform last resort Magick. The Adept will obtain some kind of alleviation of the problem through applying Magick to the issue. However their may be underlying issues which have caused the problem to manifest. If this is so, the last resort Magick should serve only to provide a breathing space allowing the Adept to consider the broader context of the issue.
There are some things that last resort Magick is completely useless for: The HGA ordeal and especially the Oath of the Abyss for example.
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@kasper81 said
"Just a reminder that this forum is about Thelema and True Will."
That's part of it. An important part. But you keep missing or denying or resisting the other part.
This forum is foremost about magick, mysticism, expanded consciousness, spiritual growth, deepening one's intimate connection to spiritual realities. Thelema is the method.
Again: Our first name is Temple. Our last name is Thelema. The first name is the particular purpose. The last name is the means.
You keep ignoring the first name and getting stuck on the last name.
PS - This site quite intentionally was not spun off of www.thelema.org (which we own and maintain), but was intentionally created with the name of a God. Think about that....
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@kasper81 said
"What a bunch of mystical crap that was. Honourable, but mystical. Karma? Past lives? Are you real?"
Yes. Totally Kasper, the above almost got you a warning.
To be clear: The quote you disparage is from the founder of the College of Thelema and one of the founders of Temple of Thelema. That should at least give you some idea that the material cited is fundamental to what this forum exists to communicate.
That might be worth thinking about a bit, eh?
Wanna know what we're about? Read In the Continuum and Black Pearl. You don't have to agree - not at all! On the other hand, taking a persistently strident stand against nearly all fundamentals that C.O.T. and T.'.O.'.T.'. teaches does... tend to make your posts off-topic to the site by definition. Can you see that?
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Clean up completed. I regret that I had to cut some wonderful posts while removing the OT digression - but the marvelous posts were also OT. (And I cut several of mine as well. That's one of the risks of troll-feeding.)
A reminder: Other than minor, brief digressions, threads are expected to remain on the topic of the ORIGINAL post. If you want to change the subject, start a new thread. Everything (everything!) that I cut was because it was OT.
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@axismundi said
"Going way back to the original OP question.
A friend of mine (sadly these days we meet less then once a year) said:
"A poor Magickian is a poor Magickian".
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can sometimes force us to perform last resort Magick. The Adept will obtain some kind of alleviation of the problem through applying Magick to the issue. However their may be underlying issues which have caused the problem to manifest. If this is so, the last resort Magick should serve only to provide a breathing space allowing the Adept to consider the broader context of the issue.
There are some things that last resort Magick is completely useless for: The HGA ordeal and especially the Oath of the Abyss for example."
Good points, my friend.
In my experience I've found that Magick is best used for no reason whatsoever. There is a certain joy in participating in the tides of nature and partaking of the company of the Gods. But what of the material realm? We are all going to run into problems in our quest to complete the Great Work. I see it as our divine right as Magicians to impose order on Chaos, and when this Chaos manifests itself in the material realm it is our right to master it. The problem arises when we are not working in harmony with our True Will. If one is not in harmony with their Will no expenditure of Magical Force will resolve the issue. So the problems arise from within and can usually be resolved not by practicing Magick with the aim of accomplishing a particular goal, but with the aim of perfecting ourselves as Aspirants and Individuals.
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@Mephis said
"
@axismundi said
"Going way back to the original OP question.A friend of mine (sadly these days we meet less then once a year) said:
"A poor Magickian is a poor Magickian".
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can sometimes force us to perform last resort Magick. The Adept will obtain some kind of alleviation of the problem through applying Magick to the issue. However their may be underlying issues which have caused the problem to manifest. If this is so, the last resort Magick should serve only to provide a breathing space allowing the Adept to consider the broader context of the issue.
There are some things that last resort Magick is completely useless for: The HGA ordeal and especially the Oath of the Abyss for example."
Good points, my friend.
In my experience I've found that Magick is best used for no reason whatsoever. There is a certain joy in participating in the tides of nature and partaking of the company of the Gods. But what of the material realm? We are all going to run into problems in our quest to complete the Great Work. I see it as our divine right as Magicians to impose order on Chaos, and when this Chaos manifests itself in the material realm it is our right to master it. The problem arises when we are not working in harmony with our True Will. If one is not in harmony with their Will no expenditure of Magical Force will resolve the issue. So the problems arise from within and can usually be resolved not by practicing Magick with the aim of accomplishing a particular goal, but with the aim of perfecting ourselves as Aspirants and Individuals."
Thank you you have struck to the heart of the issue.
It is true that any Magick that is not in accord with True Will or is not about aligning with True Will is at best a waste of energy. Yet I have to admit there have been times when the 'slings and arrows of outrageous fortune have lured me into doing such, well, I would say two times.
Not the best thing because although the eye of the hurricane is calm, the chaos that has been evoked around you is readily noticeable. With respect to the Yi King when 'PO' is drawn an interesting exercise is to counter- balance so that when the lines change to PO the material effect is 0. The joy of the dance.
I will think this over and return when I can articulate it better.
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How it works: If you purpose is to have money or to have money to fulfill your purpose, you do the ritual that connects you astraly with people, groups, that might help you get money. For example that becomes easier to convince someone to loan his money to you or you even may get proposals you would never expect from that person. Considering that we are multi-dimensional living beeing mechanics become clear.
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@Vadox said
"How it works: If you purpose is to have money or to have money to fulfill your purpose, you do the ritual that connects you astraly with people, groups, that might help you get money. For example that becomes easier to convince someone to loan his money to you or you even may get proposals you would never expect from that person. Considering that we are multi-dimensional living beeing mechanics become clear."
So, on this note, let me ask a question or series of questions that refer more to the practical side of the issue:
Say, for instance, there is a particular individual (definitely not me) who is absolutely at the end of their resources: broke, in debt, homeless, pretty much utterly down and out. All efforts at resolution/negotiation have failed. What would be a good Last Resort Magical Strategy for the resolution of said issues? Any particular Rituals or Planetary Energies I should get in touch with? This particular individual is pretty much dead in the water... The Cosmic S.O.S. either didn't reach the right people or was outright ignored due to some kind of karmic situation.
Usually this individual is too proud to admit defeat but at this point a little advice would be cool.
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Mephisto, that I wouldn't mess with. Let me tell you why and it's pretty simple. I'm the kind of guy that some might say is "too proud" to admit defeat. I don't think it's pride though for me, it's perspective. I'll concede to defeat in a game of chess or Axis & Allies or something where it is cut and dry, by life is full of nothing but opportunities. I've been homeless a few times, pretty much without a penny for a time as well, but I've never been resourceless. Now, on the other hand, if your friend is in his situation, not admitting "defeat," yet instead of seeing this as an opportunity but as a victimization, it's simply a matter of one's psychological character and for you - there's nothing you can do.
Burn all the candles you wish, petition Jupiter for fortune or Venus for income - but you can't fix the permanently broken.
And don't get me wrong - I didn't always get back up without a hand from a friend, and there was magick involved on my end and illogical results put me in possession of the house I have now, but all and all I credit my never say die attitude. Along with not putting the burden of blame on anyone else.
Something to think on.
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@Mephis said
"Say, for instance, there is a particular individual (definitely not me) who is absolutely at the end of their resources: broke, in debt, homeless, pretty much utterly down and out. All efforts at resolution/negotiation have failed. What would be a good Last Resort Magical Strategy for the resolution of said issues?"
I disagree with Takamba when he says "permanently broken".
Being at the end of resources and broke and in debt and homeless is the strategy. I might ask how the person got to this state because it sounds like they have been calcinated. This step dissolution breaks down the artificial structures that have bound the person in the past in order for them to separate the fine from the gross in the next step.
My advice is for the person to submit entirely their will to their environment. Friends, Family, Strangers, God, etc.
This is the story of how they succeeded in the future. -
All Aspirants eventually reach the point of "rock bottom."
To concede these things to you, my Brethren, is more so a gesture of solidarity than anything.
I have lived to the fullest the "lifestyle" represented by the Book of the Law. I have been a beggar--and a King thereby.
My only flaw was to admit weakness and defeat. I spake overmuch.
There are yet quite a few resources at my demand, and there is always the joy of battle. Thank you for your well wishing and so forth, but I have a job to do.
'Tis all good fun, good fun.
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@Mephis said
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@Vadox said
"How it works: If you purpose is to have money or to have money to fulfill your purpose, you do the ritual that connects you astraly with people, groups, that might help you get money. For example that becomes easier to convince someone to loan his money to you or you even may get proposals you would never expect from that person. Considering that we are multi-dimensional living beeing mechanics become clear."So, on this note, let me ask a question or series of questions that refer more to the practical side of the issue:
Say, for instance, there is a particular individual (definitely not me) who is absolutely at the end of their resources: broke, in debt, homeless, pretty much utterly down and out. All efforts at resolution/negotiation have failed. What would be a good Last Resort Magical Strategy for the resolution of said issues? Any particular Rituals or Planetary Energies I should get in touch with? This particular individual is pretty much dead in the water... The Cosmic S.O.S. either didn't reach the right people or was outright ignored due to some kind of karmic situation.
Usually this individual is too proud to admit defeat but at this point a little advice would be cool."I have been in this situation with people whom seemingly are at the bottom.
One of the things that has helped me in these times are the archetypal analogies presented in mythology.
One of the most powerful mythological stories is about Persephone and Hades. I have had some wonderful results in these situations by enacting these stories, relating them and bringing them to life so to speak.
The Queen of the Dead is such by Her Virtue of Rebirth. She hears all Prayers and deals Justice, wether it be by Mercy, or Severity.
I am sure that you are equipt to know how to petition Her, but if you would like some specifics I can give more details.