Creating Elementaries

axismundi

"I have just finished reading Franz bardon's Initiation into hermetics where he gives the process of creating, what he calls, elementaries. I have wanted to do this for some time now, so my questions are, before I attempt to do this;

1.is his method effective?
2.Are there better methods?
3. Do fluid condensers really make a difference?

Thanks"

Yes his method is effective
2 Probably other methods that are also effective and may suit the specific operator more then Bardons
3 Fluid condensers are generally of high utility not just with respect to elementaries.

Freya

Thank you axismundi, my main concern was on fluid condensers, whether they really work.

Any ideas on more fluid condensers for the air element, besides the ones listed in Bardon's book?

axismundi

@Freya said

"Thank you axismundi, my main concern was on fluid condensers, whether they really work.

Any ideas on more fluid condensers for the air element, besides the ones listed in Bardon's book?"

Crowleys Liber 777 gives suitable attributions as a general rule a small amount of gold tincture and you own bodily fluids if it is solely for your use.

The various sexual procedures for the different degrees have relevance. I personally would keep all emblems of use private and not use any from other people or organisations private or otherwise.

Freya

@axismundi said

"

The various sexual procedures for the different degrees have relevance. I personally would keep all emblems of use private and not use any from other people or organisations private or otherwise."

wise words...

HounganRocky

"Crowleys Liber 777 gives suitable attributions as a general rule a small amount of gold tincture and you own bodily fluids if it is solely for your use."

I politely disagree with the use of bodily fluids for use with elemental beings, or offering bodily fluids with any spiritual being deity or not. The only acceptable context for the use of one's own blood I have found is in the consumption of the Eucharist or sex magic which is still a Eucharist. When blood/bodily fluid is offered to any spiritual being the whole source of the blood is given over to the dominion of the spiritual being. It is never truly necessary to offer blood/bodily fluid to any spiritual being in general. This concept does not included formula that may been directly transmitted by one's own Angel, in which case someone operating as a 5=6 or greater would understand perfectly.

"1.is his method effective? "

Yes, the question is: Is it efficient?

"2.Are there better methods? "

There are always alternative means of accomplishing the same result. For instance, the magician may use an urn or bottle to give the "elemental" spirit to inhabit. Keeping the fluid condenser in a liquid state will sustain the spirit longer.

"3. Do fluid condensers really make a difference?"

If the fluid condenser is made with fresh ingredients that have had their essence extracted with alcohol rather than using a boiled mash the results will be one hundred times more effective.

Freya

Thank you Houngan, especially for warning me about the bodily fluids in the condenser...if what you say is really true you saved me a whole lot of trouble.

Freya

Thank you!

axismundi

@HounganRocky said

"
"Crowleys Liber 777 gives suitable attributions as a general rule a small amount of gold tincture and you own bodily fluids if it is solely for your use."

I politely disagree with the use of bodily fluids for use with elemental beings, or offering bodily fluids with any spiritual being deity or not. The only acceptable context for the use of one's own blood I have found is in the consumption of the Eucharist or sex magic which is still a Eucharist. When blood/bodily fluid is offered to any spiritual being the whole source of the blood is given over to the dominion of the spiritual being. It is never truly necessary to offer blood/bodily fluid to any spiritual being in general. This concept does not included formula that may been directly transmitted by one's own Angel, in which case someone operating as a 5=6 or greater would understand perfectly.

................................................

If the fluid condenser is made with fresh ingredients that have had their essence extracted with alcohol rather than using a boiled mash the results will be one hundred times more effective."

Whilst I do not share your view here I'm not sure how constructive it would be to add more, also it would perhaps side-track from the initial direction of the OP.

Freya

sorry, axismundi....add more of what? thanks

axismundi

@Freya said

"sorry, axismundi....add more of what? thanks"

I'm not going to be drawn out on this, or discuss grades or secrets because in my view that is just for people who want to pretend to do the Art. In my view Magick is for all, all of it!

HounganRocky seems like an OK guy and has written stuff I find of actual practical value.

I think it is best I leave this thread entirely alone now whatever is posted on it.

Mephisto

@Freya said

"I have just finished reading Franz bardon's Initiation into hermetics where he gives the process of creating, what he calls, elementaries. I have wanted to do this for some time now, so my questions are, before I attempt to do this;

1.is his method effective?
2.Are there better methods?
3. Do fluid condensers really make a difference?

Thanks"

Answers to questions one, two, and three:

Be careful; it works.

The intended result is not always the actual result. I speak from painful experience.

I would not work with this sort of Magick unless one were an Adept. But do as thou wilt.

"Lust of result," and all that. Manifestation of this kind is useless unless one has first conquered the Mind.