Free Love

[Ab-ul-Az]

@Jim Eshelman said

"All I'm really saying, though, is that an unbounded area of choice has to remain - that there be no outside rules imposed by society, social rules, etc. But people can make their own choices, and make agreements within a particular relationship. For example, you might choose to be with someone in a relationship where your agreement is monogamy - that's cool, too, if you enter into the agreement freely. However, entering into such an agreement (or its reverse) under duress will screw you up psychologically. Choice has to be free."

We should be careful what we mean by 'free love', if that equates a busy-body sexually with different people during a short period of time while having the opportunity to be in a stable relationship then something is off. We should be neither exceedingly suppressing it, nor subliming it, as the Master himself said.

I'm also of the belief that spiritually sensitive people can't survive such lifestyle, as they create rapports easily and their auras become effected.

Eventually, as initiates, we'll have to meet our twin, and experience hieros gamos, the well known alchemical marriage. I doubt an entrance back to Shamballa is made alone, or is it?

[Avshalom Binyamin]

"if that equates a busy-body sexually with different people during a short period of time while having the opportunity to be in a stable relationship then something is off"

What is off is the slut-shaming attitude about other people's choices.

Sexual promiscuity can be either toxic or holy. Stable monogamous relationships can be either toxic or holy.

[LD330]

@Ab-ul-Az said

"

We should be careful what we mean by 'free love', if that equates a busy-body sexually with different people during a short period of time while having the opportunity to be in a stable relationship then something is off. We should be neither exceedingly suppressing it, nor subliming it, as the Master himself said.

I'm also of the belief that spiritually sensitive people can't survive such lifestyle, as they create rapports easily and their auras become effected.

Eventually, as initiates, we'll have to meet our twin, and experience hieros gamos, the well known alchemical marriage. I doubt an entrance back to Shamballa is made alone, or is it?"

I agree with Avshalom, that's what girls do when they call each other sluts.

You think females-to-society don't have the same drive to attack and rape everything that moves that we do?

They do, that's their dick. They have to cover it up because people won't/don't recognize them. They get it taken away from them so constantly that that's what "female" becomes.

[Takamba]

It's all a phallacy!

All these labels (divisions) are the problem. Just simply be. Nature made you free. Love as thou wilt. - Thus spoketh the Law

[Ab-ul-Az]

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"What is off is the slut-shaming attitude about other people's choices.

Sexual promiscuity can be either toxic or holy. Stable monogamous relationships can be either toxic or holy."

The usual leftist sophistry.
I pointed out why I think this is not good for aspirants, even technically.
You tell me now what makes it 'holy' and safe?

An ideal relationship is balanced and harmonized on all of these planes; the spiritual, mental, sexual, and emotional. Whether we like it nor not, this is how it is, we should be brave enough to admit it and deal with our inner solitude, not everyone is lucky (especially at these times) to have such relationship, it's rare indeed but it's the NATURAL way, and apparently many are not having it for karmic reasons, cultural/environmental influences are secondary.

You are definitely free to unite with anyone based on two or one of the aspects I mentioned, but it will still be lacking in regards to the concept of relationship and finally making a family. Do what you will, but take responsibility and acknowledge things as they are and don't sugar coat it.

I emphasize again on the busy-body (busy-mind too) mentioned in Liber Aleph and other works, try to understand it, as it's considered a hindrance of achieving one's True Will.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

No, I don't need to defend someone's expression of consensual sexuality to you, and I don't accept that the relationship model you call natural is even that.

The nuclear family is an industrial age creation. If we had been in nuclear families for very long you wouldn't see such extreme variation in milk production, for one.

"Natural" for humans in general is a fluid mix of tribal links, monogamish pair bonding, and promiscuity. On the individual level, it can be anything. Humans do thrive on connection, but the form that connection takes can be varied.

I don't see the bias or sugarcoating in that. Any relationship, short or long, can by toxic or healthy.

I know it's a nazi tendency to prescribe one way of being and pretend it's the best for everyone, but nahhh it isn't.

[Ab-ul-Az]

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"No, I don't need to defend someone's expression of consensual sexuality to you, and I don't accept that the relationship model you call natural is even that.

The nuclear family is an industrial age creation. If we had been in nuclear families for very long you wouldn't see such extreme variation in milk production, for one.

"Natural" for humans in general is a fluid mix of tribal links, monogamish pair bonding, and promiscuity. On the individual level, it can be anything. Humans do thrive on connection, but the form that connection takes can be varied.

I don't see the bias or sugarcoating in that. Any relationship, short or long, can by toxic or healthy.

I know it's a nazi tendency to prescribe one way of being and pretend it's the best for everyone, but nahhh it isn't."

I'm trying to be as practical as possible, pointing out why I think such approach is the one healthier and more beneficial for the mystic and aspirant to finally assist his initiation, I'm not acting like a moral authority over these matters as you'd like to believe.

Nature is dictated by the Tao, its laws and dynamics speak for themselves, not through any 'subjective' intellectual discourse and chatter. We should be humble enough to deal with it wisely.

You mention tribal and monogamous pairing, but yet, you want to make promiscuity as the exception and rule, while it isn't. I'm still waiting for your answer as why you think busy-body-based sexual promiscuity is holy, you seem to be confusing Liber AL passages and allegories with this. Remember that Liberty also is a responsibility and another kind of bond.

I am an idealist aristocrat, and when it comes to the common man, I don't care whom you are sleeping with so far you're not interfering and effecting your folk and nation's well being, unity and evolution (ie. continuity through family), something sadly most gay people for instance can't wrap their heads around.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

I don't see a point in arguing about it. You clearly have a subjective personal belief that your committed to.

[Jim Eshelman]

@Ab-ul-Az said

"I am an idealist aristocrat, and when it comes to the common man, I don't care whom you are sleeping with so far you're not interfering and effecting your folk and nation's well being, unity and evolution (ie. continuity through family), something sadly most gay people for instance can't wrap their heads around."

I'll only add that I think it an indefensible position that people need to be committed to procreation. We'd do much better as a species and part of the larger ecosystem if, say, half the people on the planet decided not to procreate for a generation or two. If we overdo that, recovery will be quite easy.

I'm not overly concerned with continued biological evolution. It will continue to happen - continue to tweak the mix a bit - but it's probably near its upper arc. I've known for decades that the human species needs to take its next evolutionary steps within each generation, which is what the training systems for spiritual acceleration are all about. We have enormous untapped genius within the biological structures we've already evolved.

[Corvinae]

@Takamba said

"It's all a phallacy!

All these labels (divisions) are the problem. Just simply be. Nature made you free. Love as thou wilt. - Thus spoketh the Law"

you always seem to say just what I need to hear, in less then 2 dozen words. thank you

[Corvinae]

@Jim Eshelman said

"I'll only add that I think it an indefensible position that people need to be committed to procreation. We'd do much better as a species and part of the larger ecosystem if, say, half the people on the planet decided not to procreate for a generation or two. If we overdo that, recovery will be quite easy.

I'm not overly concerned with continued biological evolution. It will continue to happen - continue to tweak the mix a bit - but it's probably near its upper arc. I've known for decades that the human species needs to take its next evolutionary steps within each generation, which is what the training systems for spiritual acceleration are all about. We have enormous untapped genius within the biological structures we've already evolved."

Hear! Hear!!
hallelujah and amen to that!!!

the natural feast famine cycle of our beloved planet used to do a wonderful job of self regulating population. they we imposed a constant food source and now our numbers are off the chart.

[Heru]

@Jim Eshelman said

"We'd do much better as a species and part of the larger ecosystem if, say, half the people on the planet decided not to procreate for a generation or two. If we overdo that, recovery will be quite easy."

That sounds great in theory, but who's going to deal with the disproportionate increase in the elderly population? Declining birthrates in the developed world have recently made this a pressing issue. Most Western nations currently try to solve this problem by importing increasing amounts of cheap foreign labor. To me it sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

Then there's the problem of a shrinking tax base. Fewer people having kids means fewer people entering the work force and an ever smaller tax intake. Sure, you can increase taxes, but it can only go so far before the young are financially crippled. Do we ban retirement and institute a "work until you drop" policy for the elderly until balance is restored? We're already heading in that direction anyway without a drastic reduction in the future young population!

[Takamba]

And thus sank Atlantis.

Everyone's competing consequences of their limited-viewpoint actions.

What would be ideal is if nobody thought they knew a better solution for other people to be.

[Corvinae]

@Takamba said

"And thus sank Atlantis.

Everyone's competing consequences of their limited-viewpoint actions.

What would be ideal is if nobody thought they knew a better solution for other people to be."

You right
Like always
Im going to just go be a unicorn and mind my own business.
Thanks again for being kind

[Avshalom Binyamin]

It's an illusion. His comment is just as much of an Atlantis as everyone else's. He's just tricked himself into thinking it's any different.

(Kind of a paradox, continually telling people to mind their own business..)

In the meantime, if a bunch of us--but not all of us--just "mind our own business", that's kind of how stuff like fascism stands a chance.

[Corvinae]

Linea viridis gyrat universa

[Takamba]

It's all about the shame of attachment to desire. Thinking and being are two different things, and thinking makes any being look exactly like the thinker thinks, regardless of the pure truth of the being. It is attachment that is the curse, it is thinking that is the trap, it is believing that is the glue.

The paradox is that I am speaking only of the pure truth of the being, not "what I think."

[seekinghga]

@Takamba said

"The paradox is that I am speaking only of the pure truth of the being, not "what I think.""

Indeed. That paradox is summated quite exquisitely in Liber 400.

www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib400.htm

[Hermitas]

I don't have much to say about it.

If someone wants to leave, let them.

The rest is personal preference.

[Zalthos]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I take my fill and will of love as I will, when, where and with whom I will.

But always unto Nuit.