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Who's the "Great Architect" in Thelema?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Thelema
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  • F Offline
    F Offline
    FiatYod
    wrote on last edited by BillieA93
    #1

    I know that some Thelemites are Freemasons, even Crowley was (not sure if he left Freemasonry after he received the Law).
    So when a Thelemite takes part in a Masonic ritual, and they speak of the Great Architect of the Universe, how should the Thelemite interpret it?
    Since there is no definition of a creator in Thelema, which one would be the most natural choice:

    1. The HGA
    2. Hadit in the context of Nuit
    3. Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit as one
    4. Something different altogether

    Thanks!

    T F C 5 Replies Last reply
    0
    • F FiatYod

      I know that some Thelemites are Freemasons, even Crowley was (not sure if he left Freemasonry after he received the Law).
      So when a Thelemite takes part in a Masonic ritual, and they speak of the Great Architect of the Universe, how should the Thelemite interpret it?
      Since there is no definition of a creator in Thelema, which one would be the most natural choice:

      1. The HGA
      2. Hadit in the context of Nuit
      3. Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit as one
      4. Something different altogether

      Thanks!

      T Offline
      T Offline
      Takamba
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Like all things
      through the route of degrees
      change is stability
      and stability is change
      Only the Master knows the secret name

      Who is the great magician who makes the grass green?

      hint: Robert Anton Wilson was an original G

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • F FiatYod

        I know that some Thelemites are Freemasons, even Crowley was (not sure if he left Freemasonry after he received the Law).
        So when a Thelemite takes part in a Masonic ritual, and they speak of the Great Architect of the Universe, how should the Thelemite interpret it?
        Since there is no definition of a creator in Thelema, which one would be the most natural choice:

        1. The HGA
        2. Hadit in the context of Nuit
        3. Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit as one
        4. Something different altogether

        Thanks!

        F Offline
        F Offline
        FiatYod
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @Takamba said

        "Like all things
        through the route of degrees
        change is stability
        and stability is change
        Only the Master knows the secret name
        "

        Replying in verse, before Corvinae even left a comment! That's nice.
        I don't really mind the names, but rather what they represent.

        @Takamba said

        "Who is the great magician who makes the grass green?
        "

        From a Thelemic perspective, is it truly one great magician? If so, it would seem that the answer is close to the third option that I proposed (because, all things considered, the greenness of the grass stems from the functions of all three). Do you agree?

        @Takamba said

        "hint: Robert Anton Wilson was an original G
        "

        Never heard of this guy, but I've just briefly read the Wikipedia page about him, and I don't understand his relevance to this question.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • F FiatYod

          I know that some Thelemites are Freemasons, even Crowley was (not sure if he left Freemasonry after he received the Law).
          So when a Thelemite takes part in a Masonic ritual, and they speak of the Great Architect of the Universe, how should the Thelemite interpret it?
          Since there is no definition of a creator in Thelema, which one would be the most natural choice:

          1. The HGA
          2. Hadit in the context of Nuit
          3. Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit as one
          4. Something different altogether

          Thanks!

          T Offline
          T Offline
          Takamba
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @FiatYod said

          "
          @Takamba said
          "Like all things
          through the route of degrees
          change is stability
          and stability is change
          Only the Master knows the secret name
          "

          Replying in verse, before Corvinae even left a comment! That's nice.
          I don't really mind the names, but rather what they represent.
          "

          Thank you for the nod. Yes, inspired by the virtual presence of Corvinae (or any other alias she will later go by).
          What this verse represents is that the answer that could be given to your question is actually one that will change over time, and when it doesn't change (and yes, figuratively it is always one of those three you mention in answer number three), the meanings will change. "The song remains the same" but the understanding of it does not.

          *CORRECTION
          It's "All of the above."

          @FiatYod said

          "
          @Takamba said
          "Who is the great magician who makes the grass green?
          "

          From a Thelemic perspective, is it truly one great magician? If so, it would seem that the answer is close to the third option that I proposed (because, all things considered, the greenness of the grass stems from the functions of all three). Do you agree? "

          Yes, see my response above. The zen-like koan created or quoted by Robert Anton Wilson represents the idea that it is I who create the meanings in this world of mine (yours, only in as much as you allow my influence, whereas you are the one then for yourself making 'the grass green.'

          @FiatYod said

          "
          @Takamba said
          "hint: Robert Anton Wilson was an original G
          "

          Never heard of this guy, but I've just briefly read the Wikipedia page about him, and I don't understand his relevance to this question."

          He was a famous Thelemite, Freemason, Shriner, Discordian, Ceremonial/Chaos/Freebird Magician. He's known for co-authoring the infamous and famous Illuminati "Trilogy." He's quite the clown!

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          • F FiatYod

            I know that some Thelemites are Freemasons, even Crowley was (not sure if he left Freemasonry after he received the Law).
            So when a Thelemite takes part in a Masonic ritual, and they speak of the Great Architect of the Universe, how should the Thelemite interpret it?
            Since there is no definition of a creator in Thelema, which one would be the most natural choice:

            1. The HGA
            2. Hadit in the context of Nuit
            3. Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit as one
            4. Something different altogether

            Thanks!

            C Offline
            C Offline
            Corvinae
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Ha!

            I do have a day job
            Its fun and carefree
            And all of the children
            They really love me

            We build bright new worlds
            In thier fertile fields
            Of grey matter
            and and baby curls

            Who designs the best forts
            Or pirate ships to sail
            Around the worlds ports
            Each one says, tis I

            Each name that Ive had
            Each name I have switched
            Was because my ego
            Had started to twitch

            It pushed and it pulled
            It bound me in chains
            Till I squirmed like a worm
            Freeing myself from those pains

            How should a Thelemite respond
            Do you ask
            When in the room filled
            With Masons agasts

            Calling out names
            and old fashioned games
            I would respond the same
            I a room full of babes

            Who build little worlds
            In thier minds all afresh
            With new words of power
            To them all a fresh.

            The line of green
            That defines how and why
            Can and should be pushed out
            Bit by bit
            By and by

            My name that I have
            Right now on the list
            Is an egg over easy
            And scrambled the best

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • F FiatYod

              I know that some Thelemites are Freemasons, even Crowley was (not sure if he left Freemasonry after he received the Law).
              So when a Thelemite takes part in a Masonic ritual, and they speak of the Great Architect of the Universe, how should the Thelemite interpret it?
              Since there is no definition of a creator in Thelema, which one would be the most natural choice:

              1. The HGA
              2. Hadit in the context of Nuit
              3. Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit as one
              4. Something different altogether

              Thanks!

              C Offline
              C Offline
              Corvinae
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @FiatYod said

              "I know that some Thelemites are Freemasons, even Crowley was (not sure if he left Freemasonry after he received the Law).
              So when a Thelemite takes part in a Masonic ritual, and they speak of the Great Architect of the Universe, how should the Thelemite interpret it?

              Thanks!"

              If I personally was ever at a ritual or event and someone/organization spoke of some great architect......

              I would recall that the origin of the word architect means "to weave or to fabricate"

              If I was at a play dough building party and someone spoke of the great dough shaper

              I would interpret it the same.

              If I was over at Takambas house for tea and toast and he talked about how he grew the bergamot and ground the flour for my meal.......

              Well I would interpret that as he knows the truth and the heart of building something real and important.

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