No attribution system is 100% accurate they are only general signposts. In my personal opinion someone who emphasis the symbol system in a Thomas Kuhn type quest for absolute truth through this; could be likened to hermanubis.
Perhaps only as a Gnana yoga type perspective is this useful.
Actually try it magickaly and judge for yourself.
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@axismundi said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"There are many Hebrew archangels that appear in the Enochian source documents. They aen't Enochian at all - they're Hebrew. Do not treat their names as composed of Enochian letters."
Some of these Angels also appear in the Holy Koran, perhaps they are simply Angels and do not posses some kind of Angelic cultural ethnicity."
It's a question of the formulae through which their names are expressed."
If the formula is different then the entity is different but looking at various of these texts they occasionally identify themselves as the same entity. So I politely disagree. For example by changing the rose cross letters to enochian letters we can get the same sigil for the same angel when we use it to trace the angels name.
@Jim Eshelman said
"There are many Hebrew archangels that appear in the Enochian source documents. They aen't Enochian at all - they're Hebrew. Do not treat their names as composed of Enochian letters."
Some of these Angels also appear in the Holy Koran, perhaps they are simply Angels and do not posses some kind of Angelic cultural ethnicity.
A good way to check for yourself is to use the telesma attributions of Hebrew. For example use an Archangel that turns up in say Heptarchia mysteria and also in Kabbalah. Once you have the telesmatic image generate it again using the enochian attributions and see if it is a near match. To double check you could use the vibratory formula in both enochian and hebrew and check the 'feel'. You should find they more or less match up and you would have fully verified it for yourself which I always find personally satisfying.
The method of science the aim of religion.
A good work solely on the Sigillum Die Aemeth is:
The Magic Seal of John Dee: The Sigillum Dei Aemeth
by
Colin Campbell
The Tetian Press
2009
@Freya said
"sorry, axismundi....add more of what? thanks"
I'm not going to be drawn out on this, or discuss grades or secrets because in my view that is just for people who want to pretend to do the Art. In my view Magick is for all, all of it!
HounganRocky seems like an OK guy and has written stuff I find of actual practical value.
I think it is best I leave this thread entirely alone now whatever is posted on it.
@HounganRocky said
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"Crowleys Liber 777 gives suitable attributions as a general rule a small amount of gold tincture and you own bodily fluids if it is solely for your use."
I politely disagree with the use of bodily fluids for use with elemental beings, or offering bodily fluids with any spiritual being deity or not. The only acceptable context for the use of one's own blood I have found is in the consumption of the Eucharist or sex magic which is still a Eucharist. When blood/bodily fluid is offered to any spiritual being the whole source of the blood is given over to the dominion of the spiritual being. It is never truly necessary to offer blood/bodily fluid to any spiritual being in general. This concept does not included formula that may been directly transmitted by one's own Angel, in which case someone operating as a 5=6 or greater would understand perfectly.
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If the fluid condenser is made with fresh ingredients that have had their essence extracted with alcohol rather than using a boiled mash the results will be one hundred times more effective."
Whilst I do not share your view here I'm not sure how constructive it would be to add more, also it would perhaps side-track from the initial direction of the OP.
@Freya said
"Thank you axismundi, my main concern was on fluid condensers, whether they really work.
Any ideas on more fluid condensers for the air element, besides the ones listed in Bardon's book?"
Crowleys Liber 777 gives suitable attributions as a general rule a small amount of gold tincture and you own bodily fluids if it is solely for your use.
The various sexual procedures for the different degrees have relevance. I personally would keep all emblems of use private and not use any from other people or organisations private or otherwise.
@Freya said
"I have just finished reading Franz bardon's Initiation into hermetics where he gives the process of creating, what he calls, elementaries. I have wanted to do this for some time now, so my questions are, before I attempt to do this;
1.is his method effective?
2.Are there better methods?
3. Do fluid condensers really make a difference?
Thanks"
@Mephis said
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@axismundi said
"Going way back to the original OP question.
A friend of mine (sadly these days we meet less then once a year) said:
"A poor Magickian is a poor Magickian".
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can sometimes force us to perform last resort Magick. The Adept will obtain some kind of alleviation of the problem through applying Magick to the issue. However their may be underlying issues which have caused the problem to manifest. If this is so, the last resort Magick should serve only to provide a breathing space allowing the Adept to consider the broader context of the issue.
There are some things that last resort Magick is completely useless for: The HGA ordeal and especially the Oath of the Abyss for example."
Good points, my friend.
In my experience I've found that Magick is best used for no reason whatsoever. There is a certain joy in participating in the tides of nature and partaking of the company of the Gods. But what of the material realm? We are all going to run into problems in our quest to complete the Great Work. I see it as our divine right as Magicians to impose order on Chaos, and when this Chaos manifests itself in the material realm it is our right to master it. The problem arises when we are not working in harmony with our True Will. If one is not in harmony with their Will no expenditure of Magical Force will resolve the issue. So the problems arise from within and can usually be resolved not by practicing Magick with the aim of accomplishing a particular goal, but with the aim of perfecting ourselves as Aspirants and Individuals."
Thank you you have struck to the heart of the issue.
It is true that any Magick that is not in accord with True Will or is not about aligning with True Will is at best a waste of energy. Yet I have to admit there have been times when the 'slings and arrows of outrageous fortune have lured me into doing such, well, I would say two times.
Not the best thing because although the eye of the hurricane is calm, the chaos that has been evoked around you is readily noticeable. With respect to the Yi King when 'PO' is drawn an interesting exercise is to counter- balance so that when the lines change to PO the material effect is 0. The joy of the dance.
I will think this over and return when I can articulate it better.
Going way back to the original OP question.
A friend of mine (sadly these days we meet less then once a year) said:
"A poor Magickian is a poor Magickian".
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune can sometimes force us to perform last resort Magick. The Adept will obtain some kind of alleviation of the problem through applying Magick to the issue. However their may be underlying issues which have caused the problem to manifest. If this is so, the last resort Magick should serve only to provide a breathing space allowing the Adept to consider the broader context of the issue.
There are some things that last resort Magick is completely useless for: The HGA ordeal and especially the Oath of the Abyss for example.
The problem for a lot of people is that magick and religion have become separate especially in countries that have had Christianity.
It is difficult for a lot of people to really take on board that magick and religion have usually been 'hand in glove'.
This is one of the reasons why Thelema is so valuable, it is a modern religious philosophy developed by a european and which fully integrates magick. People from other cultures which still have magick integral to religion have no difficulty with spirits appearing visibly etc even if the work they do is very empirical, a scientist for example.
Some of the issues and difficulties that have arisen on this thread are perhaps due to the barren spiritual heritage that rapidly fading Christianity has left behind.
Is to better to have the spirit or entity appear visibly in the triangle or is it preferable for the spirit to posses a persons body.
I would say that it is better for the entity to appear visibly to the mk I eyeball for magick because it requires more preparation and training.
Having the spirit posses a person is more relevant when their is a stronger religious component because often the person who is to be possessed a 'horse', has a rare talent. It would be selfish to just do private work with such a person when the spirits can interact with a much larger group of people via a possessed person.
@HounganRocky said
"The magical lamps are closer to the style used in Hoodoo and Voodoo."
I have only a slight theoretical knowledge of voodoo & hoodoo. It is interesting that magic lamps are used in it. I am assuming you mean the lamp-projector type things not merely coloured lamps, my mistake if I got that wrong.
Interesting.
The only useful stuff on using magic lamps I have encountered is on youtube. 11faustia11's stuff on the tepaphone. A positive use would be to shine the lamp on the triangle to help make a suitable environment in the area of the triangle. I really like your suggestion because it utilises say Alchemical products more efficiently and then perhaps just accumulator in the fondue pot.
You should really write the book I think. There are too many low level beginners books and not enough that encourage research at a higher level.
I am thinking about this fondue idea and adding a magisterie or if I have enough a few drops of spagyric quintessence to the accumulator in the fondue pot.
Taking this to its logical extreme would visible appearance be more pronounced if even more potent Alchemical products were utilised I wonder.
@Fr Cognosco cum Lux said
"I also did something like a blessing to all the water I drank during those days. Traced pentagram of water and endowed it with an idea something like Spring's Resurgance.
I blessed my lunch and consumed "Vital Surging Energy"
I don't know how to make a tincture. Any instructions?"
The idea suggested by Hounganrocky was to take an Alchemical preparation to help with energy for a ritual.
If you havn't done any Alchemy I would recommend making a plant magisterie for this. Concise instructions to make this are found in Real Alchemy by Robert Bartlett. The Quintessence I was thinking of is more involved to make then a plant magisterie. Although both are Novice level Alchemy if you are not an Alchemist as well as a Magician it would take some time and a lot more laboratory equipment before you started to make the Quintessence compared to the magisterie.
@HounganRocky said
"The Kabbalistic Cross and the Middle Pillar Ritual are, arguably, the most effective ways to raise one's energy. Daily consumption of a Eucharist will certainly keep the magician's energy high and and potent. One could, in theory, (or rather helpful suggestion from lots of practice) use spagyric tinctures to this end. There are many ways to have "pre stored" energies in a consumable form to raise your body of light effectively to do magical work.
Rocky"
I am of the view that a Spagyric Quintessence does or can have a planetary signature even though this is lost in the initial Separation stage. Any planetary work then, Evocation or Invocation would benefit from a planetary tincture specifically I am thinking. Again, thanks for the practical suggestion.
The fondue pot suggestion is very useful thank you.
I usually use dittany of Crete and a fan employed by my glamorous assistant (wife), along with some appropriate oil evaporated in the triangle. Making a load of accumulator and evaporating it using a fondue pot in the triangle of art sounds more practical and probably more economic.