Evocation: Like condensed steam or in a person?
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@HounganRocky said
"The magical lamps are closer to the style used in Hoodoo and Voodoo."
I have only a slight theoretical knowledge of voodoo & hoodoo. It is interesting that magic lamps are used in it. I am assuming you mean the lamp-projector type things not merely coloured lamps, my mistake if I got that wrong.
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Imagine something more like a cauldron with a floating wick.
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The easiest way to see the spirit in Assiah is to have a human horse for the evocation, that's basically all that comprises Voodoo.
The trick that most Houngans know is how to keep the spirit from going bossale or "rough" when it's on the horse. The way Bartzebel behaved in Corwley's classic evocation is an example of a spirit getting rough. We have prayers, songs, and gestures that "cool" the temperament of the spirit so that it speaks intelligibly and not cause any harm.
More than likely, the part of the evocation where the spirit takes on human form in the Goetia is an obscured way of saying it has taken possession.
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@kasper81 said
"am not interested in voodoo at all, but thanks anyway"
Thanks for letting us know.
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"The easiest way to see the spirit in Assiah is to have a human horse for the evocation, that's basically all that comprises Voodoo.
"At first I was confused by a human horse, but is it a typo for human host? If not could you explain further.
Also what are the consequences of allowing such a spirit to 'possess' someone, isn't it dangerous?
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"At first I was confused by a human horse, but is it a typo for human host? If not could you explain further."
Horse is the term for a person who is able to be possessed. The spirit "rides" the head. To fully grasp the use of the word you would need to witness a spirit "jumping" on someone's head. It appears as though they have been struck in the head unexpectedly and they will be pitched about and stumble like a wild horse being tamed.
"Also what are the consequences of allowing such a spirit to 'possess' someone, isn't it dangerous?"
It can be extremely dangerous; the person could have a heart attack or a stroke if the spirit can't be tamed, if you are abusive towards the spirit it could even try to attack you.
"am not interested in voodoo at all, but thanks anyway"
I never assumed you did, I was simply pointing a method to manifesting a spirit in Assiah.
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93,
"is it in accord with Thelema?. That is the question....imo. I know that sounds rude but there's no other way to put it. May need a whole new thread"
I think anythings in accord with Thelema, as long as the spirit horse guy is willing to partake and knows the consequences who cares?
Crowley allowed Choronzon to take possession, or whatever of him, that sounds similar......
93's.
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Is to better to have the spirit or entity appear visibly in the triangle or is it preferable for the spirit to posses a persons body.
I would say that it is better for the entity to appear visibly to the mk I eyeball for magick because it requires more preparation and training.
Having the spirit posses a person is more relevant when their is a stronger religious component because often the person who is to be possessed a 'horse', has a rare talent. It would be selfish to just do private work with such a person when the spirits can interact with a much larger group of people via a possessed person.
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@axismundi said
"Is to better to have the spirit or entity appear visibly in the triangle or is it preferable for the spirit to posses a persons body.
I would say that it is better for the entity to appear visibly to the mk I eyeball for magick because it requires more preparation and training.
Having the spirit posses a person is more relevant when their is a stronger religious component because often the person who is to be possessed a 'horse', has a rare talent. It would be selfish to just do private work with such a person when the spirits can interact with a much larger group of people via a possessed person."
Finally, someone that gets it.
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The problem for a lot of people is that magick and religion have become separate especially in countries that have had Christianity.
It is difficult for a lot of people to really take on board that magick and religion have usually been 'hand in glove'.
This is one of the reasons why Thelema is so valuable, it is a modern religious philosophy developed by a european and which fully integrates magick. People from other cultures which still have magick integral to religion have no difficulty with spirits appearing visibly etc even if the work they do is very empirical, a scientist for example.
Some of the issues and difficulties that have arisen on this thread are perhaps due to the barren spiritual heritage that rapidly fading Christianity has left behind.