College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Hello Potater,

Aside from having similar strengths, weaknesses and preferences, they should also tend to have similar physical features, as apparent in the case of twins.

However, the physical features are also dependent upon the Term and Face ruler of the Ascendant, among other things, which can be pretty sensitive to the change of time, as there are five Term rulers and three Face rulers in each sign. A 20-30 minutes difference in birth times is sufficient to change the Term ruler, assuming that the first person's Ascendant was at the beginning of the Term.

Another important thing is to note the Moon and its aspects, for it signifies the body and is the fastest moving...'planet'. Change or perfection of aspects will also change the body.

In some rare but interesting cases, we might also see a planet retrograde in one chart and stationery in another chart, and vice versa.

Needless to say, all this is also true for talents and preferences.

In the case of twins, they will likely be very similar in nature. But then there's nurture. Moreover, the objects or constructs in a natal chart symbolizes many things, signifying that there are several possible paths for a person to take. So twins can end up in different places though they are very similar in nature.

EDIT:

It would be interesting to check hospital records to look at how often this occurs

@IAO131:

Oh, a naturalist philsopher.

Some astrologers held that view as well, in the past. If I remember correctly, Ptolemy was one of them.

@Veronica:

I see. What part of astrology has helped you most with Thelema? For example, maybe it was the symbolisms of the planets that aided your understanding of the nature of human beings? Or maybe it help you discover more about your psychological tendencies (if you follow the more modern strand)?

Among the four main branches of Astrology (horary, natal, electional, mundane), which do you find yourself using the most often?

Also, which branch(s) has helped you the most in your development as a Thelemite?

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@Frater 639:

"But requires our subjectivity to interface with the divination."

Yes, but there are two separate processes involved here. First, we perceive something. Then, we interpret what that something means.

A clairvoyant perceives something appearing in his mind's eye. A non-clairvoyant tarot reader 'feels the cards' before selecting them to be spread.

Although arguably both uses psychic faculties at first, the 'plane' on which the object is perceived is different. The object perceived by the clairvoyant stays in his/her mind's eye, and is therefore subjective because it can only be 'seen' by him (unless he telepathically communicates it to others).

The object perceived by the tarot reader are the cards, which are objects resting on the material plane (I believe it's called Assiah). It's there for all to see with their sensory sight.

Note that I am not assigning a value judgment on the words "objective" and "subjective"; I am simply describing the nature of the object of our perception.

Also, I am looking at it from the POV of someone who has been relying more on his sensory perception, and therefore it would be easier for him to accept the judgment if he is given some sensory stimuli.

So that's why I claimed that it's a reason to use divination over our natural psychic faculties. But only those who depend more on sensory perception would find it beneficial. To the strong intuitive/psychic, their psychic faculties would be as reliable as a system of divination.

"Well, there may be confusion here between psychic faculties and intuition, judging by the sentence."

Can you elaborate?

"...and what you call "clairs" can both be considered subjective and objective..."

No it cannot, unless you mean that the object that the clairs see actually exist somewhere on the material plane. This I would agree with. But then the object might not be within your proximity, unlike the tarot cards which will be right in front of you.

Of course, I realize that this is arbitrary if only the meaning is significant, and the stimuli themselves are not.

"Mercurial spirits (like Tarot) or Earth elementals (like geomantic Intelligences) can be equally as misleading, as well as the "clairs", relative to the level of training of the practitioner. Symbols can be muddled all over the place."

I agree, but the object of perception itself are of different natures depending on which method you use.

"Suffice it to say, this is part of the reason why the system of the A.'.A.'. starts to deal with the "proving of the spirits" very early on."

That's good; hopefully I'll be able to migrate somewhere where a centre is available.

Thanks for the responses!

"The Magician obtains the transcendental knowledge necessary to an intelligent course of conduct directly in consciousness by clairvoyance and clairaudience; but communication with superior intelligences demands elaborate preparation, even after years of successful performance."

This part. OK, I'll admit that I misread it.

But it is also possible to solely use the clairs without using a divinatory tool. To require the use of divination as a medium implies to me that the clairs aren't sufficient.

Insights come to me 'intuitively' or 'claircognizantly'. Clairvoyance and clairaudience are the faculties which I have to consciously develop, not something that I can use normally, which I why I think that clairvoyance/clairaudience itself is something which has to be studied, just like a divinatory system.

Edit:

My comment on objectivity and consistency only applies to situations in which the clairs are not well developed yet.

Clairs are like our sensory faculties; they have to be developed in order to function well. We can call them our psychic faculties.

Divination is objective because the symbols appear outside us. We are able to use our sensory faculties to determine what symbols have appeared, and record it as is. Clairs are subjective because the symbols appear within the person (i.e. subject). Note that I'm not saying objective=good, subjective=bad.

However, when our psychic faculties are not well developed, we are not always able to distinguish our clairs' information and our imagination. So the symbols that appear may be distorted by our imagination. As such, it is harder to be consistent with our readings if we are using our clairs.

Readings with divination tends to be more consistent for two reasons; one, it relies more on our sensory faculties, which are often more developed (since we need them to survive in the material world). Two, the symbols have fixed significations that directs the reader's intuition to then manipulate it.

Edit 2:

@Jim:

If I appear cranky or cynical in my expression, I apologize. Things have not been going well for me, which often stunts my communication skills and makes me come across as confrontational.

I think my question is:

"For thelemic purposes, what is purpose of the practice of divination?"

Perhaps you have already given your answer in your first post.

Hi

So these are the reasons (as I understand it):

1. Divination has practical value (in both the material world and the spiritual world).

2. Divination hones our perception which allows us to gather more information about our situation.

3. Divination allows access to the contents of the subsconsciousness and later, to Neshamah ("soul?" is it also related to accessing the Akashic Records?).

4. Access to these information allows one to perform the Great Work more efficaciously.

@Jim:

I could not figure out what place divination has in Thelema...I think that training the mind and body and performing magickal rituals would be more directly effective.

Regarding the use of astrology, which branch of astrology? I suspect mainly horary? Although I think studying natal charts can give some insights as to what one's True Will is...

@Frater 639:

Based on the text, why is divination preferred over the clairs? Theoretically, a clair should be able to attain information at about the same speed once she has become reasonably skilled at it.

One could even argue that in more 'mundane' matters, clairs would be faster than say, drawing a geomantic chart (unless you use a computer program.)

Probably the only reasons to use it over the clairs are to maintain more objectivity and consistency.

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Hello there

I'm curious; at some point the...'syllabus' of the A.A. or any other Thelemic organizations would require the...'practitioner' (for a lack of a better word) to learn at least one form of divination and practice it.

For example, I remember reading somewhere (I believe it was from a book written by AC?) that the practitioner is required to learn either tarot, geomancy or astrology after a certain level~

Can anyone shed some light on this?

+==---Laxus---<>