College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

magik is to cause changes in conformity to my will.

some people think that will refers to the "ego" will and not to the divine will.

there is a pastor in california (wiley drake) that is practicing an interesting form of black magick that seems to be in alignment with the bible. it is called imprecatory prayer. with it, you pray to cause death to others, to cause misery and ill and all sorts of evil.

this pastor had a radio interview to encourage people to practice this prayer so that president obama dies.

littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33885_Wiley_Drakes_Imprecatory_Prayer

here is the definition of this type of prayer...

www.bible.ca/ef/expository-psalm-35.htm

there is something that can be similar in thelema. in the book of the law...

"I will give you a war-engine." Ch III v.7

"With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you". Ch III v.8

"These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you". Ch III v.26

...so on and so forth.

in thelema it's ok to eliminate your enemies, you may be forced to kill if necessary if someone opposes your true will. but i think the real difference between that pastor and a true thelemite is the understanding of true will as a form of the divine. the pastor is acting on the basis of separation and fear. he is a coward as far as i can see. and in no way in alignment with the divine.
a thelemite forced to kill would do it as the very very very last resource with the understanding that every man and every woman is a star, and this would bring heavy karma upon hirself.

"Accepting the law of Thelema usually means accepting "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt" etc and isnt a claim about attaining one's true will or not. "

"accepting" may not be enough. "accepting the rules" on a tennis tournament doesn't make you a tennis player.

the first word in the law is "do"... as in "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

so ... in order to do your true will, you have to know it first.

just saying...

"In this Aeon, the central formula is not L.V.X., but N.O.X. Much more than the balance or opposite of L.V.X., the formula of N.O.X. is that of the Mother (ה), while L.V.X. was once that of the Son (ו). The former once opened the Vault of Abiegnus; the latter opens the Gates of the City of the Pyramids."

isn't NOX (the invisible aspect of LVX) the current/reality that streams from beyond kether and pours down the tree being both a very different thing from the formula to open the gates of the city of the pyramids (BAB AL ON)?

"Note the past tense usage in the former case, L.V.X. will no longer open the Vault of the Mountain of Adepts; it now opens the Four Gates to the Palace at the foot of the Mountain. No longer is it the word of the Son Tiphareth, but of the Daughter Malkuth who borders upon the Shells. The formula I.N.R.I. has no relationship to this L.V.X. and is useful primarily to those who have not yet accepted the Law of Thelema."

i may be opening a can of worms... but according to this train of thought we are all in tiphareth! we have ALL attained to the K&C of the HGA!!

i guess tomorrow we are all going to be in the city of the pyramids without even knowing...

but seriously, what he may mean by "accepting the law of thelema" is simply somebody that has discovered his/her true will (tiphareth) or 5=6 in the A.'.A.'. system, but it is kind of silly to assume that we all are at that level.
maybe by the end of the Aeon...

93 again scarecrow

@Scarecrow said

"
I guess I've known too many feminists to take it for granted that on the TOL, Chokmah, is above Binah. It's a structure with some sense of hierarchy..."

mmm i don't think i understand this. can you elaborate a bit more?

@Scarecrow said

"
From Confessions of Aleister Crowley:

""... morally and mentally, women were for me beneath contempt. They had no true moral ideals. They were bound up with their necessary preoccupation, with the function of reproduction. Their apparent aspirations were camouflage. Intellectually, of course, they did not exist. Even the few whose minds were not completely blank had them furnished with Wardour Street Chippendale. Their attainments were those of the ape and the parrot. These facts did not deter me. On the contrary, it was highly convenient that one's sexual relations should be with an animal with no consciousness beyond sex."

Sounds like the receptivity that we've identified as being the forumla of women."

please see my post above. this is statement is not thelema even with crowley's signature...

this is thelema:
"every man and every woman is a star"

if he was criticizing women, it was women that had not started their development and that are only operating from a primitive stand point (sadly common situation in the victorian era). just to balance this attack on women, men can be stupid and primitive as well. but my intent is not to start a war of the sexes, just to understand that:

a) crowley was a man and bound to make stupid remarks once in a while.
b) thelema is not crowley. crowley was a fascinating man that helped us grasp the concept, but we should not go astray by his mistakes.

93s
miss ruby

93 scarecrow,

@Scarecrow said

"
Personally I have a hard time distinguishing the wheat from the chaff when it comes to AC and Thelema, and this statement strikes a major reoccuring chord in my Wagnerian battle.

To generalize my dilema:

1. AC is a man. "

...and he is also the prophet. two different things.
sometimes generalizations help, but we have to be able to distinguish the man from the prophet if we want to make progress overall.

@Scarecrow said

"

2. He seems to deify the sexual instinct as God, and furthermore the Sperm as the physical manifestation of that Power.
   "

two points here... "only" sperm as the physical manifestation of that power? power corresponds to geburah and the severity pillar. the tarot card the charriot has the secret of the holy graal. it unites geburah and binah. in other words, the point doesn't exist without the circle, and viceversa. i find it fascinating that the sigil for the sun is a dot and a circle.

second:
thelema is a solar-phalic religion/philosopy/movement/belief system (whatever you want to call it). it is a mistake to think that only males posses this energy. that is the most literal and shortsighted view of thelema. we humans exist in different planes and we both posses this energy even if our genitals express different aspects of the same energy on the physical plane. this is very important to understand.

@Scarecrow said

"
this makes sense to me when I consider Thelema in the context of a Male Cult... "

this is only true if you want to create a cult around a man and not follow thelema.
in other words, you can be a thelemite and don't pay attention to crowley as a man.

@Scarecrow said

"
Regarding his writings, there are numerous cases of blatant sexism. I've just reread parts of "The Diary of a Drug Fiend" and in the final analysis, it seems like the character of Lou's True Will is to server her man and do whatever he needs to fulfill his own TW (ie. to be the zombie to his necromancer).
"

if i tell you that victor neuburg's true will was to pursue crowley sexually, am i saying that all men have to do the same?
every human being has to decide what is her or his true will and you can't generalize based on one example.

@Scarecrow said

"
I guess what I'm getting at, is, can we discuss Thelema, as Crowley wrote about it, without a male oriented/dominating POV? If we wish to follow a more gender-equal perspective, how much of Crowley's Thelema do we need to change?"

my personal belief is that thelema has always been gender-equal, and only the imperfections in crowley's personality obscured some aspect of it. that's why i am so adamant in making clear that this constant mistake is removed from our comprehension of thelema.

@Scarecrow said

"
Miss Ruby I noticed you began a post with the 93 greeting... which I assume ({@$$}-U-Me... I know) means you follow Thelema somewhat closely... have you found you need to reinterpret some of what Crowley says in order to find a more common ground?"

see above...

93s
miss ruby

"The Kundrie is a woman that seeks to control, change or direct the actions of the man in such a way that he is imprisoned by her. This is easily remedied by any man who can realize what is happening and bring it to bay. If he does not he's more to blame than she! "

this you describe is what jung called the anima. these are qualities that are in the man and projected into a woman. they are two aspects to the anima, the negative (described by you) and the positive. but the important thing to remember is that these aspects are inside the masculine psyche not the feminine.

"Another point of confusion for man is over indulgence in the dominating aspect. The mans natural center being in tipharet (the ego center) he can easily become a overbearing person if he 'projects' himself too much in one direction."

i want to make the observation that humanity and not the masculine is centered in tipharet. tipharet is not on the masculine pillar (mercy) nor on the feminine pillar (severity).

"Men: Lingam, projection & penetration Archetype: Chaos the undirected force of energy (Will) he is perpetually going. He penetrates the heart of matter implanting himself therein making her the vehicle of his will. "

hello and 93!
is it me or this it sounds as if women were some kind of zombies doing the will of men?

@Froclown said

"As far as being condescending, is condescension off limits? I should think not, if it is your WILL then do it, the only reason for passing a law against condescending speech is that you think my feelings or some ones feelings need protected, I am insulted more by belief that I need protected and I need others to pull their punches, that I am by the punches themselves."

lol, you have a point but fyi i was not defending you. i was pointing out to aum418 that he's doing the same thing he's disgusted of.

@Froclown said

"Any time you restrict yourself or put a restriction in general to protect others, you are declaring that you believe some one is less than worthy or able to handle, the full brunt force of others, no holds barred. That is insulting to others. "

yes, i agree! - thelema 101
in any case, this thread has gone a little awry... or so it seems.

@Aum418 said

"Its a sad thing that women cant take pride in being victorious in a cock fight "

excuse me? please do not generalize. any woman can win your cock fight.

remember, all the power is given to the scarlet woman. power belongs to the severity (feminine) pillar

@Aum418 said

"Im sorry to say that you sound utterly condescending and I find that disgusting. You think you can tell anotehr they have a long way to go because they dont agree with your 'hippie' interpretation of things?"

excuse me again but you have been dismissive and condescending to froclown and you are being rude to asraiya. take that into account.

@bryan said

"
@miss ruby said
"but what are the requirements for one calling himself or herself a thelemite? is it just accepting the book of the law or in addition to that maybe finding their true will.
i'm assuming that finding your true will happens at 5=6 and not before?"

From what I've read many times on this forum by experienced folk like Jim, discovering your true will does not necessarily occur at 5=6. K&C of the HGA and discovering your true will are not the same event. Apparently discovering your true will often happens a while before 5=6.

Anyway, I think the requirements for calling yourself a Thelemite is that you say or think "I am a Thelemite". I don't think I could get into any debate about what a Thelemite "REALLY" is because all definitions seem to be are something that a bunch of people basically agree on. This means that definitions can change if a whole lot of people (like, say, the 1 billion catholics on earth) changed their idea of the definition. And since word definitions are more pliable than people and their belief systems, I think the Catholics (in this scenario) would change what it means to be a "Thelemite", before Thelema changed what it meant to be a Catholic."

hello bryan,
i am curious now about the "calling yourself a thelemite" part... and just thinking out loud, the book of the law says that if you look close into the word, for there are therein three grades; so i would tend to think that some kind of initiation/transformation needs to take place? yes?

"2) How can all experience be lawful if certain things are not. For example, killing a person is an experience, yet it is against Thelema to deprive another of their will. So, in order to get all experience, we must break our own laws?"

ok... going back to your original question.

i see that only by going against your true will and "breaking the law", you'll learn that it is wrong. it may be the only way you'll "get it".
killing another human being not in self defense is going against your will.
however, there mere fact that it is possible to act against your will is a sacrament, because it guarantees that you learn the difference.
yes?

ruby

hello david,

please let me say something here...

@DavidH said

" 1) Since Nuit is infinite, there are infinite experience and thus we will never get all of them."

i tend to agree with Aum418. it is all in the planes. i would add that access to "infinite experience" is for "gods" and beyond the abyss.

@DavidH said

"2) How can all experience be lawful if certain things are not. For example, killing a person is an experience, yet it is against Thelema to deprive another of their will. So, in order to get all experience, we must break our own laws?"

i see things not so black and white. not all killing is wrong... it all depends.
see liber oz.
to defend your rights is lawful.

@DavidH said

"3) Crowley says in the commentary that it is a joke to think incarnations are had for the purpose of learning something new or gaining experience. This seems to contradict the idea of a star as an agregate of experience, and the concept of the interaction of Hadit/Nuit."

i would like to see the exact quote, but i would say that it depends. very few people have access to past lives, and i would think that it is high up in the tree of life that one can have complete recollection of them. so for the initiate moving up the tree, the focus is in the present and in the experience at hand.

@Sphynx said

"
@miss ruby said
"i was wondering if you guys think the catholic church can convert to thelema? ... of course this will never happen ..."

It looks like you already answered your own question."

well, you are right. it is wishful thinking. the oto accepted thelema after it was formed... but it was the prophet that revamped the order.

ruby

@bryan said

"If a billion people called themselves Thelemites, I suspect the definition of "Thelemite" is the thing that would have changed more then the actual mindset of those billion people."

i see your point, but what are the requirements for one calling himself or herself a thelemite? is it just accepting the book of the law or in addition to that maybe finding their true will.
i'm assuming that finding your true will happens at 5=6 and not before?

ruby

hello and 93!
i was wondering if you guys think the catholic church can convert to thelema? after all, catholic just means "universal" or "complete".
of course this will never happen, but it would be amusing to see it happen. in fact, they should probably have to drop the osiris/crucified god mithos and adopt the image of christ as a child, more in line with heruraha-rahoor khuit.

btw, thanks Jim for your answers!

Wizardiaoan wrote

"Lastly, my present advice would be to begin to unite all the Thelemic bodies into one and begin to prepare for this World Unity."

If by unite you mean stop the petty fights, I agree.
I think the first step is to acknowledge the fact the we all are thelemites regardless. No "Universal Head" for all thelemites is necessary in my opinion.
All groups have to keep their own individual flavor.
It's like an orchestra. You don't ask the flutes to sound like the trumpets or drums. You need the various very distinct sounds.

93!
i was wondering if a secret chief automatically becomes one after crossing the abyss or if there is another requirement? i mean, does this future secret chief has the option of
a) remain incarnate and direct humanity among the living
b) not retain his/her physical body and lend a hand by other means
c) not dedicating time to instructing/directing humanity for the moment, but later
d) depart completely from this realm and grow some other way
c) none of the above

i'm sorry if this is kind of silly, but the subject is fascinating to me and i would appreciate some information.

@Uni_Verse said

"I bet if you started gnawing on your tail you would find it tasty!"

Uni, this made me laugh ...

air? what about meringues for dessert... ?