College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

@mark0987 said

"First of all, I would recommend really looking at yourself and trying to identify the root cause of your disturbance, normally anything which causes a persistent problem doesn't have a superficial root, it is normally manifesting as x, but arises from a.

I think you aren't just mentioning one problem or issue but a couple which are all directed towards your relationship. They may share a common root and it is the root you wish to tackle, or they may arise from different roots and you need to tackle them separately.

Personally, I would associate jealousy and obsession as negative traits of Venus, not Mars. If there is anger which is separate from the Jealousy that would be Mars, otherwise the anger is more symptomatic.

Sample Ritual 9 in 776 is a brilliant ritual for your purposes, it even has a Mars example. If you decide Venus is more applicable then you would simply rewrite the Mars parts of the ritual, so The Empress card instead of the tower, you would use appropriate visualizations etc.

You cannot destroy these impulses, it doesn't work like that. If it did, life would be so much easier. It is about identifying these energies, these psychological impulses, extracting them and then reintegrating them into the whole so that they work with you and not against you. Too much jealousy is an issue, just enough can be a driving force to better yourself."

Interesting, i did a bit of searching and found someone listing the qualities associated with the planets.

i see your point in the venus aspect. Maybe i did not go into enough detail with my complex, but Jupiter really seems to fit what i realllly struggle with. I quote this from another thread

Saturn: tendency (often unconscious) to seek total control of situations & relationships. Parent-themed issues (nourishment-deprivation). Pessimism, distrust, little self-confidence, passive-aggressiveness, feeling inferior, anxiety, depression, self-sacrifice. Wounded pride, loss, feeling misunderstood. Increased security needs. Others seem unsympathetic, vulnerability and over-responsiveness to the harsh, demanding, unsupportive facets of one's environment. Security needs emphasized (tenacious, possessive, needs roots; material ownership is basis for security; resists ending toxic relationships). Emotionally exhausting experiences (depression, sad feelings, frustration, resignation, psychosomatic illness). Being insensitive/unresponsive to others’ feelings and needs (being uncommunicative, blocking others’ free emotional expression). Space/time sensitive. Feeling inferior or inadequate (one’s own shortcomings emphasized; anxiety, waning confidence). Self-punishing. Holding own feelings in check (need to “be strong” precludes active feeling involvement). Guilt and shame in general.

Also, Mars really fits the bill also:

Mars: Impatience, irritability, reactionary behaviour, overbearing sexual needs. Reactive to criticism; intolerance; argumentativeness. Emotional aggression. Inciting of an emotional response in another. Tendency to pick on others, and to seek out their vulnerabilities. Issues involving the (lack of) control of anger, occurrences of needless arguments, preoccupation of memories of others hurting one in the past, intrusive thoughts of violence or desires for revenge, misplaced / difficulties controlling aggression and competitiveness, perhaps even sexual frustration or some forms of fear which hinder ambition.

I definitely have intense revenge fantasies that are extremely violent, and I get obsessed with how a few people have wronged me, including my girlfriend at the moment. However, i dont think its healthy.

For venus: Venus: inability to accept the full scope of one's femininity. Insecurity, passive-dependent nature, moodiness, being blindsided by strong feelings, stemming from insufficiently accepting the full scope of one's femininity.

Im not sure i resonate as strongly with this one. I am a newbie to ritual though so im open to your suggestion. I definitely resonate with the Saturn one though, thats pretty on the money.

@mark0987 said

"First of all, I would recommend really looking at yourself and trying to identify the root cause of your disturbance, normally anything which causes a persistent problem doesn't have a superficial root, it is normally manifesting as x, but arises from a.

I think you aren't just mentioning one problem or issue but a couple which are all directed towards your relationship. They may share a common root and it is the root you wish to tackle, or they may arise from different roots and you need to tackle them separately.

Personally, I would associate jealousy and obsession as negative traits of Venus, not Mars. If there is anger which is separate from the Jealousy that would be Mars, otherwise the anger is more symptomatic.

Sample Ritual 9 in 776 is a brilliant ritual for your purposes, it even has a Mars example. If you decide Venus is more applicable then you would simply rewrite the Mars parts of the ritual, so The Empress card instead of the tower, you would use appropriate visualizations etc.

You cannot destroy these impulses, it doesn't work like that. If it did, life would be so much easier. It is about identifying these energies, these psychological impulses, extracting them and then reintegrating them into the whole so that they work with you and not against you. Too much jealousy is an issue, just enough can be a driving force to better yourself."

hey Mark thanks for your reply. I wonder what a "root" of a problem really is. I never know what to make of it when someone suggest i get to the root. I just know that i get very possesive, easily jealous and controlling when i get into a relationship..and naturally the women in my life hate it. Im 31, and it may be from a period in my mid 20's where i developed some pretty ant-women attitudes...and studied the so called "nature" of women in depth from various blogs and articles written by an underground movement of men trying to improve their success with women. Mostly angry, bitter guys i suppose. I just generally don't trust women, and i am afraid to. I dont know if this is considered the root.

Hi,

I have decided that I desperately need to eliminate a VERY self destructive aspect of myself.

I have a pathological jealousy/insecurity problem with my love relationships. I have destroyed several, and currently am doing the same thing. Basically i have trouble letting go of the past. I also have pathological feelings of inferiority when I am in a relationship...I easily feel that other people are more attractive, better matches etc. It is obsessive and very destructive.

I want to work on overcoming this. I have 776 1/2, and am studying ritual construction/preliminaries. So far, Mars appears to be a correspondence that applies...the description of Magical Powers & Mystical States, line 27 "Works of Wrath, Chastisement, & Vengeance; Destruction of thoughts".

This seemed most applicable to me. I want to stop obsessing about a particular person my girlfriend used to know. Too many details about why, but i'm happy to supply them. In general, I think it has come to the point where I will continue to completely derail my life until i fix this.

Anybody with more ritual/life experience care to help me out? I feeling very desperate. Thanks.

@Takamba said

"Jimmy Page broke his pinky while on tour. He fought through it. Led Zeppelin continued to achieve new heights!

You could explore all kinds of "occult" or "alternative" healing methods. There's nothing specific I can tell you.

One thing about "True Will" (so-called) is that sometimes the fighting through is the point all along."

Thanks. I might make this question a separate post its kinda heavy. But basically i struggle with tons of regret and guilt for feeling like i havent done my true will.

Im 31 now. Im a musician (guitarist) and basically had the flash of knowing my will when i was 9. Ive spent my whole life refining my craft playing and especially recording. But some fear has kept me from singing onstage and finding a band. I tried like hell in my hometown for years and could never seem to find the right people. I can continue but the jist is..i feel like my most vital years were not lived to their fullest potential....and i really tried! From 23 or so onwards i was very dedicated to recording all my best work which i have to varying degrees. But no real measurable success yet in promoting or exposing it. I know maybe adulation is an ego thing, but i just feel like i was burning to express myself in those years and never fully did. And now im beyond those years and starting to slowly lose vitality. Any perpective?

I dislocated and chip fractured my pinky on my left hand 5 weeks ago. Im a guitarist, its my lifes work.

This is pretty devastating, ive lost range of motion and its stiff.

Is there any occult method or possibility of getting back to completely perfect and normal?

@Angel of Death said

"
@Nineborn said
"How should i deal with resentment? Invasive thoughts about past betrayals ? Basically dealing with the past."

When I have moments like this,
moments when something in my day reminds me of something past

I slap myself on the ass really hard and tell myself to wake the hell up and stop with the pity party and to put on my big girl panties and go kick some ass right now.

Dude, I have a million and one reasons to wallow in shitty thoughts about things in the past.

but that just a big ol waste of time.

recognize that all that stuff you went through got you to where you are right now.
you would not be the person you are if you hadnt gone through them
they didnt kill you
you are in a good place so be grateful for all that you do have look forward, not past."

Yeah i hear what youre saying. Its really a matter of taking control of my own thoughts i suppose. Its my choice to linger on those thoughts if theyre triggered. Doesnt make it easy per se, but i guess theres no real escape from the responsibility of directing our thought currents.

How should i deal with resentment? Invasive thoughts about past betrayals ? Basically dealing with the past. I realize we create our reality going forward, but i keep looking for some spiritual guidance to dealing with these things that are past related. I guess Im trying to find some principle that helps me realize everything is my own doing. That would make me less hurt and angry if i could internalize the fact that i somehow create all experiences myself. Because i still get floods of negative feelings when i think of certain betrayals by the person in with right now and its been a huge obstacle in my progress...in anything.

@Takamba said

"
@Nineborn said
"So you're saying that by trying to enter into a more honest way of living will have backlash, and this is my karma?"

In a manner of speaking, but not so rough around the edges, yes. This is also dependent upon a learning curve. Your ability to accept karma, adjust to karma, and adjust future karma is on you. Karma is not some score sheet, it's simply the way of the Universe. All things endure karma, some just don't have an apparatus to argue with it.

What I am also saying is that psychologically and socially you've miffed your own development, and now you must learn what you've been lacking in. That's your karma.

*edit

I'm not saying karma brought you the girl, I'm saying karma hasn't taught you to avoid the kind of girl she is (if that's your intention here)."

Do you think this could take the form of not knowing what the truth is regarding another person's motives, because you've done the same to someone? Like as you withhold, or dissimulate, or lie, you lose the ability to detect honesty in another person in a relationship?

@Takamba said

"It makes sense that that is what you are arguing, that nature has a built in checks and balances system. Making sense that that is what you are arguing doesn't mean the argument makes sense. Also, it doesn't make sense to me that you took away from what I wrote "so if you believe in it, it will happen." Actually, I wrote not that belief makes it happen, but you can believe in whatever words you wish to describe what does happen.

What happens is you change you when you do things. When you lie, you become a liar. When you steal, you become a thief. When you cheat, you become a thief and a liar. As such, you start to behave the way thieves and liars behave (by telling more lies and covering tracks). This will bring on the behavior of the world around you. That is your karma, how the world treats liars and thieves.

Now as a liar and thief, you've practiced deception and other tricks. These are your mastery. What you haven't practiced is honesty and integrity, these are not your masteries. They, in fact, become mysteries. So you get duped once you think you know how to enter the honest world, but your lying and theiving world is still stuck to your clothes, so it isn't going to be so neat and clean to do. That's your karma.

You can work these out in time by improving your skills in the honest world, learning to recognize truth from lie before it's too late, learning how to cope with emotions that normally you'd resort to lying and stealing to "cope" with, learning to do things anew. This is your karma.

not some magical quid pro qro personality quirk of the Universe, just simple cause and effect (but on a human scale)

not beliefs

but feel free to believe what you will. I can't help you there. Only you can."

So you're saying that by trying to enter into a more honest way of living will have backlash, and this is my karma?

@Takamba said

"You can believe all that "vibration" stuff if you like. At this point, it's just the idea of a different word and concept. On the other hand, you can examine how you impacted your perceptions, your accuracy in evaluating other people, and your willingness and coping strengths for creating reality by wrapping it in so many lies and weakening your will - and it is that: the simple mechanism that you don't know what reality actually is any more, and your behavior is toward this unhealthy reality, and your behavior creates the results that you are seeing.

This is up to you to discern."

Ok so basically, if i believe it, it is true. I mean i know that we create our reality mentally, i just wonder if the laws of life are such that they bring us exactly what we are. If we are a way which harms others emotionally/physically, that is a violation of the one spirit, since we are all particularizations of the one spirit.

Therefore, we are now at the effect of an identical experience we caused for another person. This causes us to connect the dots. We may have intellectually known we were being bad and rationalized it, but now we firsthand experience the very thing we did to someone else and have a visceral identification with the effects of our behavior towards someone else. Then, spiritual growth.

I guess im arguing for a built in checks and balances in natural law...which inevitably steers people in the direction of knowledge of unity. Make sense?

For example, i was wildly unfaithful to my last girlfriend. I hid alot of infidelity from her...and i was not particularly nice to her much of the time. She was a very self sacrificing, meek, pushover type of girl, and i generally abused my power and treated her poorly. In hindsight its so interesting that i turned into such a person. It was definitely a phase. And since she broke up with me, i have gotten into another relationship which has been so tumultuous, and been treated pretty badly...with many parallels to my treatment towards my ex.

I often wonder if by becoming this selfish, cruel creature for a long period of time, i ultimately attracted someone of a similar nature. Thus...learning first hand how awful i made someone else feel.

So ive done alot of studying on the subject of karma. I understand that there is a law of equillibrium/balance/justice which pervades the universe....it is natural law.

So karma is not the tit for tat thing that many suppose it is. I get that. But i wonder if the universe brings us experiences of pain if we have inflicted that pain on others. If we "vibrate" at a certain pitch, and do certain actions which would hurt another person, could it be that we someday experience similar circumstances? Maybe this is how we
learn not to harm others?

Id like to hear some perspectives

@gerry456 said

"Have you watched it? Undeniably awesome Imo. How about you? Did you like it?"

I cant tell you, you have to figure it out for yourself.

Jk. Ive seen it, yeah it is pretty great. Very moody, artistic, and full of color and eccentricity. Plus, Jimmy Page is in it. 10/10!

@Gnosomai Emauton said

"Welcome Nineborn!"

Thank you

Hi everyone, i go by Nineborn

I am very happy to be a part of this forum. I had applied awhile back, and eventually got in touch with Temple Of Thelema, and got approved.

Thought I'd say hi, and looking forward to deepening my understanding of Thelema, and myself.

Thanks!