College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

@seekinghga said

"
And thank you for your trivial assimilation of it! "

why so ornery? I did truly appreciate your poetry.

"
Exactly. "Who" sees it? Anyone with any modicum of intelligence can justify or transform any perception available to match their desire or agenda. The litmus test comes about through its thorough integration and its thorough application to noumenal reality. "

Agreed!

"
"Twin flames" are naught but concepts, just as all beliefs and thought in general. Crowley recommends matching each idea (especially when that idea constitutes a belief) with its opposite as a form of practice. I tend to second that, for what that may be worth."

Agreed!

"
This is remarkably similar to what Crowley began stating in regards to the HGA in books like "Magick Without Tears," that the HGA was a separate, discarnate entity that deigns to aid us in our endeavors. However, ideas of this kind are a throwback to the Aeon of Osiris (to use the Thelemic nomenclature). Saying that the HGA is not our inmost self is to say that it is different, thus creating the illusion/delusion of the sun rising and setting and rising again in the morning, instead of it always shining... shrugs

Gnosticism in general panders to duality, which seems to state that each of us is nothing more than a degenerated satellite to reality or Godhead. As a working thesis it is alright, but all such theses come to naught in the edifying clarity of firsthand experience of unity.

But, as in all things, if your excursions into Gnosticism avail you in the performance of the Great Work, then go for it!"

I view Thelema as modern gnosticism and a retelling of Gnosis, just with a more updated formula as Crowley mentioned.

Pairs of "lovers", no matter what you call them (Twin flames, twin souls, syzygy, twin rays, Aeons, etc) are an essential Gnostic concept as well as a foundational principle in Thelemic with the Beast and his Bride or Nuit and Hadit. The Gnostic emanations are not that dissimilar to the Tree of Life.

What intrigues me is watching these psycho spiritual forces, predicted within Liber Al vel Legis, playing out culturally more than a 100 years later, and distributing what are essentially Gnostic concepts (paired lovers as heralds and saviors of spiritual realm or salvation) are now YouTube influencers and bloggers.

Thanks for your input!

Hi everyone, it has been a minute since I've been here. Happy New Year!

The past year I have been seduced by Gnosticism in relationship to the great work, with a number of experiences that have flipped my psyche once or twice, specifically the notion of the syzygy and aeons and the evolution of that concept in modern society of twin flames. The aeons of the gnostics were all paired, and this to me seems like the original source for the modern twin flame mythology - with "twin flames" being a very trendy social media topic with popular influencers, bloggers, etc. Its great fun to watch a modern myth form without any centralized source!

This whole experience has led me to appreciate the gnostic underpinnings of thelema a bit more, and I am curious to hear any thoughts regarding the "twin soul" concept of Gnosticism and the I Am channels and Liber Al.

According to modern "myth" (do a cursory search for twin flame to see) there are 144,000 "twin flames" who are emerging now to help the world ascend. The idea is each soul seperates into duality in the material world, incarnating at the same time as polar opposites. Because of their unique "chemistry", the twin flame duo has access to a special type of "magick" (my term) which they will use to manifest this global process. Twin flames, according to modern mythology, are not just lovers, they are literally warriors.

Ever since, I see twin flames as a reoccurring theme in Thelema. Nuit and Hadit being the first pair, second pair The Beast and his Scarlet Woman. Of course, "every man and every woman is a star" with "star" having a dual meaning as "sol" or "soul". Additionally, "Hail ye twin warriors..."

The phenomenon appears to occur spontaneously, two people meet and it leads to a spiritual awakening to this deeper reality. Nobody knows whats going on until one of the partners does an internet search and discovers thousands of other couples going through this experience. Awakened "twins" will then spontaneously help the newer "twins" awakening to the experience and help them through. Judging from all the material, it does not appear like a loverly romantic process at all and appears very tumultuous.

I am fascinated by both the modern phenomenon and the ancient gnostic roots, and if anyone has any wisdom to share would love to hear.

Cheers!

@LD330 said

"I'm finding more and more the task is to raise mankind.."

Indeed.

Welcome brother.

Everything else is a joke

@Ab-ul-Az said

"I understand it's quite hard for most Western white people to overcome all the systematic propaganda and even spiritual enslavement done by the Demiurge of the Jews, which they've been fed with night and day, but for us Arabs it's probably easier as we've been fighting with this monster on physical and spiritual planes for ages, join us with the blessings of Ra-Hoor-Khuit! "

I am utterly amazed and grateful for the contributions of Jewish culture throughout the world. What an extraordinary culture. Perhaps modern liberals or wingnuts get confused between the actions of Israel as a political state as opposed to the Jewish culture historically speaking.

I'm a bit miffed that wonderful underground ideas and systems such as Thelema are being opted in by far right wing nuts who are not proud of their race or culture, they are just proud about their anger.

Unless I'm mistaken, 93 means, and always will, unconditional love.

If there is no love in your worldview, I think you're far removed from Thelema at this point.

And unless I'm mistaken, there are hordes of asshole arab and israeli politicians, manipulating their bases to hold on to their power, often by dehumanizing the other side. Funny part is they don't realize they are both on the same side the whole time.

imgur.com/a/VIodmrZ

haha! one of your better replies over the years. Good work

as a male, I have been partnered a few times in my life where an abortion was an outcome. All times this happened, even though I was relieved personally on one level, I was absolutely wrecked spiritually for months, and I wasn't even the one going through the trauma.

So yes, I am against abortion in the sense I hope no woman or couple would ever have to go through such an ordeal.

I believe however this is a choice that a woman should always have, and i pray I never have to go through that with someone ever again.

I also hope people do not consult any holy book, regardless of the creed, as a way to determine if they should or should not choose such an event. Trying to find a moral compass in Thelema or anywhere for such a thing is not what i believe liber al was meant to do.

"Let the Scarlet Woman beware! . . . if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known.
"

My interpretation with this has to do with a very exalted place of universal awareness in relation to true will, or harmonic intention. I don't believe it refers to a "woman" proper, but rather an exalted role the feminine energy provides (in both male and female) in relationship to true magick. So my personal interpretation is this refers to true magick, and if the intention of the event is in harmony with the universe, in harmony with all sentient beings - then the work is "aright", but if the intention is for the self only, it pushes the will of the universe against the aspirants "false" intention which I take in this context as a collapse of illumination into utter delusion.

@Joshua said

"I thought RA HOOR KHUIT was the self part?"

Ra Hoor Khuit is the OURSELVES part

To me, Humanity in the collective, our group "synergy" and specifically as it is in this particular place and time. Whereas Nuit is the collection of "selves" in all infinity throughout the universe, in all times, and Hadit is just the pure being, found in the self, but ultimately found in the discovery of the union with Nuit.

I often wonder if RHK is akin to the HGH for planetary collective consciousness. Curious to hear others thoughts on that.

From my perspective, this new collective energy emerges into history with the emergence of social media / internet and all the crap that has come along with it

Long Live Thelema!

beautiful.

"And the sign shall be my ecstasy, the consciousness of the continuity of existence, the omnipresence of my body."

@Takamba said

"

1. I'm not defending against you calling me anything. You can call me anything you like, it won't ultimately matter in the grand scheme of things, nor much to me. "

I shall take that at face value and hold you to it

"You did call me a Republican, by inference in a paragraph directed specifically too me."

I'm not aware that I did, perhaps you could provide via the ol copy and paste?

" 2) This indicates you are not keeping the entire conversation in context, you are isolating bits and pieces as if attacking some one bit or piece with faulty or emotional based arguments would make my entire premise crumble. "

hmmm...so I suppose you should do the old copy and paste, show me where I called you this. If perhaps you are mistaken, then I believe this would be a projection of some kind, no?

"This is also unfortunate because it keeps you perceiving me inaccurately. "

I dont know what to make of you, the only thing I suggested is that you brought libertarian ideas into the discussion.

maybe projecting again?

"You aren't, potentially, applying anything you may have learned about me in other discussions. "

perhaps!

" If you had been cataloging all of our discussions (those with you and me involved in the threads), you should know that I've said I'm a libertarian. "

to be fair, I dont catalogue our discussions. I do recall in this thread that you introduced libertarian ideals into the discussion.

" Now you deny applying a label to me. "[Y]our Republican talking" sounds like a penchant for labeling and pigeonholing, that which you accuse me of. "

is it possible you might be referring to a conversation with me in your mind?

"What does that mean, that you would do the very very very thing you accuse me of?"

it would mean I was projecting.

funny, right now it appears to me you are projecting...

which one is it? "as brothers fight ye..."

ha - could not resist.

the ol copy and paste should clear it up...brother!

" Is there a psychological word for that? A socialist opinion about that behavior? Or even a common word folks label people who preach (argue and talk over much) against the very thing they do? Is this something? (I can give you other examples of your labels all just in this thread alone, shall I?)"
"

projection, yes it is called projection.

it appears that you think I am projecting - and i think you are projecting.

Not only do I think you are projecting, but literally confessing in perfect objective detail the contents of your psychology, describing exactly your motivations to this entire forum.

At least one of us is a bit delusional, but maybe both! How can I see my own delusions with you shattering them?

if i am projecting, I want to know! Please show me and help me remove my delusions, please! I promise you the same in return.

the ol copy and paste should clear it up. I am requesting you directly copy and paste where in this thread I labeled you a republican.

Thanks in advance!

oh takamba, am a bit disappointed with this last response. what label did I call you? read the words on the page, not the words in your mind. I said you introduced ideas into the discussion and made no claim as to "who you are", applied no label to you, after all, you brought it up by saying you were not a Republican.

I get it, you're a mystery, like everyone else - but you also missed my post to you at the end of page 4.

How does Takamba respond to opportunities for collaboration or consensus? That's what really defines you "in the body of Nuit" if I might be a bit cryptic and poetic. Everybody will get the Takamba they deserve, but if you isolate yourself...no one will ever get you

@Takamba said

"
Got you again. Not a Republican. "

Okay, I'll take that at face value. But to fair, if you believe some of your language, you are introducing more libertarian ideals into this convo, somewhat baiting the convo with language kind of pigeonholing whatever everyone else who isn't a republican or libertarian is, especially those who would never vote republican, many of them likely democrats

@Takamba said

"

Mutual resolution? "

Let's do it.

"As in "we both agree?" "

yes!

"I'm not sure that isn't the end goal and not a means. "

it's both the end goal (it is the only rational, functional, harmonious, goal that would ever work) and the means (by focusing on where the foundations of "agreement" already exist through more collaborative exchanges, it becomes much easier to "see what each other means")

"How to achieve the goal of mutual resolution?"

I believe a good way to start is by understanding, or at least seeing, what my "opponent" would consider a resolution, and being clear on what you would consider a resolution. Building a shared language of what the "resolution" means to all parties provides a foundation for mutual resolution (from my experience)

"As brothers blah blah blah."

YES! Consider - say you have a truth, something mutually true (like science, for example) and I have the falsity...If I am rational, would I not greet your truth once I saw the mistake in my own calculus? If you improve my calculus or I improve yours through the "fighting as brothers" (my interpretation is this is just dialectic, debate, argumentation) that is a mutually resolving yet ideologically violent sport.

"Want an orange? I need to lighten this pack."

Imagine that famous Thelemic thought experiment (which to me never provided any satisfactory answers from known Thelemites) being applied to ideas exchanged, battled, conflicted, contradicted, yet (eventually) resolving, instead of some thought experiment over battling who gets to eat some kind of snack or food.

(lol, what is it with Thelemites and eating food? so much controversy over lunch )

"Without fail? Only a true orbit is without fail. "

I win every time I lose something that I thought was true, but was just my own delusion.

Collectively, we are in a state of almost perfect agreement all the time, there is only a very small fraction of disagreement between all of us, and those fine details can all be resolved, in principle. (My interpretation is this is what Nuit brings, an "objective" reality of all of the stars, a certainty, not a delusion)

"I like that ambition but I see that this world is confusing collaboration with pity."

Well sure, modern global civilization confuses just about everything. I'm certainly not describing what I think the world is, just what I believe it will become through a historical process that I find Liber Al remarkably predestinate.

I believe, practically speaking, much of this confusion is because of language - we really dont know what each other is talking about, even if we agree on the language shared. We are all confusing the opposites in our exchanges collectively speaking.

"I despise pity."

okay. that sounds familiar

" It puts one above the other. "

To me, I believe what you mean here is the distinction between what I consider the signature of the old aeon and the signature of the new aeon.

The old aeon is any form of win/lose psychology (which evolves into win lose problem solving). Now the win lose could be " I will lose so you can win" which is the message of Christianity, or it could be "I will win and you will lose" which is pure patriarchal social problem solving.

so "one above the other" is a form of that patriarchal win lose psychology.

The new aeon (by my interpretation) is the emergence of collective or collaborative intelligence, "win win" psychology.

Globally speaking, it is the only psychology that will work. If humanity for some reason can't upgrade, we are probably fucked

"I'm not saying to a man don't be in the spirit of kindness for life. I'm not saying to a man don't share your joy and leaping laughter. I'm not saying to a man, even such as this dreadful thing: don't sell out and paint what they tell you to paint. I'm saying to the collective that it has all the right to that but no right to thwart those rights. And I will defend these ideals to my death."

Okay, that's cool. I think maybe you just need to be funnier with it then

if you would defend it to your death, then you are adopting the win lose psychology of the old aeon, no? Is that not you suggesting that you would lose to protect the win for others?

I'm just focusing on your language...the words you choose to use to express your POV, so as to understand the underlying meaning so we can find mutual resolution.

"

Crowley, in his fiction, wrote of a semi-theocratic society of initiates who selected through their means the Leader. He was simply put, a select adept. Locally the people controlled their own forms of self-governing operations. The answers to concepts we now call "lawsuits" seemed to be the main function of this "select adept.""

I should check that out havent read crowley's fiction

"Anyway. The entire thing needs to change, not the candidate selected, not the programs we adopt to feed the needy, not even the more desirable programs of teaching and empowering the needy will do the trick (well, actually, it will do the trick of tumbling the current model toward a higher more resolute model in line with Thelemic thought). Democracy didn't come out of the aeon of Osiris overnight. I'm in no hurry. Surely it will not hurt me, the authentic being, but it will inflict something on oldfriend56 and also on Takamba because we're in the midst of it. The entire thing is going to change."

I'm feeling some mutual resolution with you here on this one amigo.

" Otherwise I agree that the genius of collaboration is what it becomes. Unfortunately, as I said, I believe collaboration (as defined by most) has become confused with other things that although they look nice, and kind, and caring, create more drag than relief. Here, have an EBT card and you better smile when you hand it to the clerk."

yeah, we got lots of work to do

that's what we kinda signed up for on this path, no?

I dig this thread. I went through this so often in my many decades relationship with Thelema and Crowley.

Of all the interpretations of Crowley that I wind up settling with, it is the interpretation of Crowley by Robert Anton Wilson that I choose to rest with. Crowley was a wizard trickster. He confessed his own flaws (as is part of the ordeal of higher passages) and showed them to us, even played with them, and hopefully scared the shit out of us with them.

He was a fascinating man. I don't view Liber Al in the same light as Crowley. Liber Al came from the higher intelligence within him, and at the end of the day Crowley was an artist. All artists are fucked up

The truths and ah-ha's I have discovered through Liber Al and Crowley are so beautiful and such a deep part of my life now, it is as if I discovered them without the need for Crowley at all...if that makes any sense.

Maybe everyone gets the Crowley they deserve?

Also, data is very helpful.

There is a reason why "non-violent" solutions work. It's not that it produces "cuddly" feelings, it is purely psychological and mathematical.

www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/2014-06-16/drop-your-weapon

Violent solutions produce more problems than they seek to resolve. That's not even philosophy, it is just the data, a very real game theory.

The US president has a very powerful position in that he sets the tone of the national discussion. This is where I believe Obama was incredible, and Trump harmful, independent of any policies or decisions. Follow the discussion...

@Takamba said

"Can you counter my rational arguments without appeals to emotion and instead provide solid rationale?"

To be fair though, Takamba, I am not sure you are presenting much of an argument in the rational deductive sense as you are just stating your opinion. At least to me. I disagree with your interpretation of Liber OZ, but only for me as I have my own intimate relationship with Thelema and Liber AL, and there is no need to combat our viewpoints unless we want to arrive at some shared objective truth.

" Specifically to the ends of "what is best for the entire collective.""

Collaboration is what is best for the collective, obviously. Non zero sum, mutual resolution is ALWAYS, without fail, great for the collective. With collaboration, society has the technical ability to give each and every single individual billionaire access to wealth.

Human politics stands in the way of collaboration.

Crowley had little insight into the coming technological breakthroughs of the 20th and 21st century.