College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

I had a thought recently that my habitual ways of thinking and doing things are Qliphoth. That the Qliphoth are (some of) our thoughts.

--C

Faust,

I think you already know the answers to your questions, and I thought your final post was an astute one.

As with any subject, the knowledge and experience of things evolves, and it is such with the Qliphoth. Just as we know that the "classical" domineering "Solomonic" attitudes towards chthonic spirits isn't necessary (and arguably an hindrance) to truly successful work with them, we know also that Qliphothic work is not without value and can even be of considerable value in some cases, as Jim has suggested. But he is most certainly correct when he says:

"" However, that doesn't mean that it's an approach one would recommend to everybody. ""

If you do feel drawn to this work though, I would suggest the work of Thomas Karlsson, whom I think has been mentioned earlier in the thread, and that of Jake Stratton-Kent.

I will also leave this post with a final thought--its just an idea and I don't preten to assure it has any value--- but it makes sense to me that the greater the solve, the greater the potential for the coagula. And if the qliphoth have one trait or purpose most would agree on, it is a powerful tendency towards the solve.

There are of course these and other words of Liber Tzaddi and other of the beasts works to consider:

"38.
I who am beyond Wisdom and Folly, arise and say unto you: achieve both weddings! Unite yourselves with both!

Beware, beware, I say, lest ye seek after the one and lose the other!
40.
My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells.
41.
But since one is naturally attracted to the Angel, another to the Demon, let the first strengthen the lower link, the last attach more firmly to the higher."

--Cody

Hehe. Well since I posted that question I found something about your latin simplex. The site I found says you and/or Ms. Seckler developed it. With it I got 209 for my phrase Per Mediam Noctis ad Solem. Also, I found an online calculator which claims to be based on a system developed by Case, which renders the same value. But, on the OSOGD site there is a calculator giving values from 5 distinct systems, none of which match 209. I'm very beginner at all this, and I'm in the process of looking the stuff up and beginning a study. I just posted here in hopes that someone in the know could help me sort this out. Where do these systems come from and how does one know which if any are accurate? Or does it even matter? I suppose I could make up my own system right now, and as long as the correspondences I come up with get me thinking and making connections and actively searching out unity of concepts in my work, then it'll have been succesful?

thanks- cody

Thanks!

Do you all have a preferred gematria calculator?

-Cody

is there anyone here who can translate an english phrase into latin for me?

i've tried it on several online translators but they don't seem accurate-- i get different answers on each one and i get a variety of different words when i type in single words as opposed to the entire phrase.

the phrase is : "through midnight to the sun"

thanks - cody

Thanks for the talk everyone, and the reference materials. I'm finally going to have time to sit down with the Wake World tonight so hopefully it'll shed light on my thinking here.

I have another question in response to Jim.

"One invokes ("calls in") something existing at a higher level than that at which we are functioning. One evokes ("calls out") something existing at a lower level."

Does this mean that its impossible to invoke (because, perhaps, its already "in") something existing at a lower level, or is it a practical recommendation not to do so? I read somewhere about magicians invoking Goetic demons and other earth type spirits, thats why I'm asking.

Thanks.

-Cody

So would a neophyte be advised to invoke Sandalphon often? And the Zelator Gabriel? and so forth?.....

And why or why not?

Thank you for your time.

-Cody

Greetings all!

i was wondering about the nature of the relationship of the various archangels to the sephiroth. Can you work with a spcific sephira without working with the archangel assigned to it, and vice versa? Are the archangels guides to explore those sephiroth? Are they more? Less? Are they in essence the same as the sephiroth? Honestly I'm being lazy because I know I could go look this up... but any discussion would be appreciated.

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    -Cody

This is definitely happening. Thanks to Freemasonry I've had the pleasure of getting to know quite a few people who are totally sympathetic with Thelema, some of whom, in secret, will even claim to be Thelemites, but who choose, for their own reasons to pursue their work in a Christian context, like Martinism. In fact all of the more advanced Martinists I know, as I judge them anyways, those who I would truly call adept, secretly study Crowley and embrace Thelema "on the down low."

"I wonder what his pedigree is ?"

He is well respected in certain Masonic and Martinist circles.

"If you do some experiments with different diets and masturbation vs. not masturbating for a damn long time, you can see big differences in the way you feel. If you learn to enjoy and release tension without releasing anything else, it is possible that that energy would accumulate and be directed elsewhere in a good way if properly instructed how to do this."

i definitely agree with you here and wasnt intending to contradict anything youd said earlier. just to point out that there may exist ample existence that weor himself was a charlatan, and that he perverted the meaning of certain teqniques and methods to suit his own ends.

i have heard that those people are extremely cultish. not to the jim jones level but pretty bad. i think the no orgasm for men thing is just another control mechanism they use on their "initiates." theres lots of good info, with several helpful links, here:

www.lashtal.com/nuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1174&highlight=samael+aun+weor

I really began to appreciate the value of certain Masonic rituals/lectures both within the Blue Lodge and the AASR after I had long since memorized them "down pat," for performances, and then all but forgotten about them for a while. I began to notice that situations in life would evoke meaningful memories and emotions from the rites/lectures themselves.

"My impression is that it's crucial to be able to distinguish the underlying force, from the form. Because the form can reach a dead-end, and if you mistake the form for the force, you'll be very frustrated.

For example, I love to write songs and play an instrument. If I lost my fingers/hands/arms or something tomorrow, I'd have to find a way of expressing the underlying will.

Further, while music is a particular manifestation of my true will, it's only one aspect of it. If I were to distill my will into a brief sentence (which I am not quite ready to do yet) it would be something that includes music as a potential manifestation, but is not limited to it."

AvshalomBinyamin---- this topic touches on something I have been thinking about recently, and which I have posted about under "Force Form and Illusion." I thought about posting this response there, but I do think the two easily overlap, since it seems that the true will consists in both force and form. At any rate if it is deemed that we cannot adequately cover both topics in one thread, so be it. No doubt, the direction I'm leaning could get into Thelemic metaphysics.... but such is the true will, right?

The problem I've been having is exactly what you mention... distinguishing between force and form. Not distinguishing the differences in the two concepts; that I can do. But I'm wondering if there is any difference in "reality," (and here we go on the language merry go round!). What I mean is that it seems to me that form may just be another force--- a force of (perhaps only lowercase) will... but a force nonetheless.

For instance, and please correct me if I'm doing an injustice to your meaning, you have within you, running through you, a creative impulse. And you give vent to this force through music. I, on the other hand, tend more to writing or drawing pictures. My uncle (www.terrygilbreth.com), on the other hand, is more prone to creating sculptures and 3 dimensional structures to express his creative impulse. What I'm thinking is that we are all moved by the same force (Hadit?), which we may characterize as (capital W) Will, and we are giving this transcendental force, or divine Will, a form of our own. If so then the form is a force of our will. We all have Hadit burning withing..... I choose to draw, you to make music, maybe some other brother or sister chooses to be an architect or what the hell ever avenue to put into action that creative impulse. Are not some misled sociopaths replying to this same creative force with destructive, even criminal, activities? And if I'm on to anything at all where does form fit into the picture?

one post reminded me of this poem.

www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/crowley/sublime.html

i can see everything in existence as energy on different levels of vibration, so theres force, but what of form? is it illusion? a construct we develop in order to "understand?" i know im shooting into the dark here but please go from this.....

i prolly shouldnt be replying here because i havent read all the posts. but if someones true will consists in "shedding," as it were, false ego conceptions, and especially if someone came to crowley asking him to help them find their true wills, i.e. to shed false ego conceptions, and if in fact that process was taking place at least in part due to circumstances the beast initaited... would he really be violating their will.

think about cefalu. we know things werent ideal there, as far as hygiene and stuff, and i feel for raoul loveday..... but crowley did not murder him, and regardless of what his wife an family later said, i doubt mr. loveday, if indeed he could look down on us today, regrets what went on there.

someone we all admire is jane wolfe... i cant help but wonder what transformations her true self underwent, realized, initiated, etc, sitting in that room with the "demonic murals", a sort of qliphotic vault of adepts.

i wish i had been there.

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(not to say crowleys relationship with nueburg wasnt flawed......)

hello again. i first developed an interest in qliphotic meanderings a few years ago when i realized, or noticed, that in my own personal experience, the greatest instances of personal growth and self improvement had occurred after and/or seemingly in response to the greatest trials i have faced in life, trials which upon inspection appear to be related to encounters with the darkest ugliest evasive parts of my own nature.

in some traditions typhon and/or set are considered, much like harpocrates, as aspects of horus. in my opinion my spiritual and more "religious" attitudes began to align more with this darker aspect of godhead while remaining purely thelemic. in any case i go on.

but my question is this: am i kidding myself, or simply mistaken, or somehow deceived, etc, as to what is percolating in my head? if the qliphoth are forms, outdated, overused, and no longer useful, what, if anything can they teach us? if qliphoth are no loner useful, why do we even mark their existence? after all we create nothing that is not god (UNTO NU HALLELUIA), so why not create existence without qliphoth? if the qliphoth are not longer useful, then they can't offer any initiation thats worthwhile, or can they? and if so, or if not, what delusions are we under to seek any new understanding from them?

if nothing else i think we can agree that this thread has been going in an attempt to gain more understanding about "them," i.e us.

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"This nonsense about left hand path and right hand path and all that is a bit immature in my opinion. The magician rises straight up, straying neither right nor left. He stands with his feet in the deepest abyss and his head in the highest Heavens."

I'm not here to stir up a hornet's nest, but I wouldn't feel right if I didn't post this. It may be that it is a bit immature to chide another honest seeker's efforts, their work and their paradigm, etc. I have no idea what is right or wrong here, but I think the above quote was rude and un-Thelemic. The work of order such as Dragon Rouge might not be for me, but it certainly isn't immature or insignificant.

Also, it might be that a purely mystical path would lead one straight up the tree without straying, but that a magicians path (at least a magician of the A.'.A.'.) necessarily takes detours from the middle pillar, for are not "the Practicus and Philosophus ... counseled in Liber 185 not to attempt to withdraw from (the order)," but that they "persevere at least to the point of equilibrating themselves, again on the middle pilllar"? Indeed it may be that the concept of standing not only with one's head in the heavens and ones feet in the abyss includes straying at times from the middle pillar.

"I'm a follower of the Right Hand Doesn't Know what the Left Hand's Doing path."

Question- if we don't know what the Left Hand Path is about, how can we know why we are followers of the RHP, and avoid the age old trap of blind dogma?

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Since I can remember, I have been under the impression that the East was classically associated with Air, the North with Earth, the West with Water, and the South with Fire.

Then, when I began using the Star Ruby, I was under the impression that Crowley had switched the elemental attributions of Earth and Air. So that Earth was in the East and Air in the North. The source of my research was:

www.lionserpent.com <----- which is the personal site of a person associated with:
www.scarletwoman.org/aboutus.html <------- an lodge of the Caliphate OTO in Austin.

At that lionserpent site there are numerous commentaries upon Liber XXV, and one of them even diagrams the quarters and their elemental attributions as I have desribed.

At any rate, I've had some experience using the ritual with those attributions and experienced some phenomena I perceived to be related to my Work the the ritual. Now I see in Mr. Eschelman's descriptions that he's assigning the elements entirely different than either version I've ever used. It dawns on my that my results with the Star Ruby might have been of a different nature given the different attributions. Indeed using Earth in the East changed my life forever.

I'm just wondering if you would care to discuss the different attributions as cited by Mr. Eschelman on this forum, and those cited at the above links from a Caliphate web page, the (in)validity of either, and any ideas concerning not only the usage of either version but also thoughts regarding the psychospiritual results of each.

Thanks. -Cody

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