Crux Ansata question
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
He's referring to this illustration.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17118720/Thelema/Tarot%20Wordless.jpg
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
You are most welcome Sean. I haven’t seen a lot of information on Crux Ansata either…… I would presume what we are looking at in Liber-T is confidential or incomplete? I am not a member of T.O.T. so I honestly do not know. But, with that being said, the Crux Ansata in Liber T at first glance appears to be closely related to the Rose Cross stripped of the Christian symbolism. I would also assume it has some sort of practical valve that would be held confidential by T.O.T.
Thanks for the visual Jim.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
It's a GD drawing. On the one hand, it appears to be simply decoration. OTOH it seems to be a decoration integrated with a number of GD Second Order patterns.
As I told Sean previously, I'm unaware of any formal explanation other than the brief note I already published. However, I encouraged him to ask his question and state his case here in case someone else remembered a source document I've forgotten or don't have.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
Thanks for posting the picture of it Jim.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
The actual ankh is clearly much more than just a copy of the Rose Cross. At the very least, it distinguishes between solar and lunar cards by the pentagrams on the bottom left and right of the ankh and this is a very important and unique piece of information that isn't found in any other teaching.
It also assigns astrological forces to the suits, and this isn't something that is just an ordinary thing. The astrological designations are often connected to the 4 kerubs, and from my limited understanding they play a much greater role in the second order teachings.
This is also clearly where "HRU" comes from by the script written in Theban on the pentacle, and yet there is no discussion of this in any of the flying scrolls and knowledge lectures. There are deeper aspects to this symbol too, but for my part would be just mere speculation.
So all in all, I would say that this symbol provokes a great many unanswered questions.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
cicadas chirping
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
The other very noticeable thing (to me at least), that is different about the ankh of the tarot compared to the rose cross, is that the alignment of the outer ring on the rose is totally different.
I've marked the difference on this graphic with a red asterisk.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
You mean because the RC rose has an outer ring element centered, rather than the dividing line between the two?
I think this is just artistic stylization, and a good signal that the ankh shown here was not intended as an actual implement. Were one to actually rely on it for, say, drawing sigils (which is a main application of the RC rose), then they would come out distorted. Symbolically, this also means that, while the RC rose integrates a set three critical presentations in the Zelator grade of G.D. (that, in turn, tie into many other things), the ankh doesn't quite do that.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
Hi Jim. I'm not convinced that it's just artistic stylisation for a couple of reasons but I'm likely to be wrong. The ankh seems to divide the major arcana into two categories, and had it remained as the Rose cross assignment, the Emperor would be a solar and lunar card which wouldn't seem correct. As is, only the Fool and Empress are both solar and lunar cards, and that seems correct. I've wondered if this is the real reason for the change since it doesn't gain anything artistically by being different from the Rose cross.
The other repercussion by using this layout is that the astrological symbols for the four elements are in a NW, NE, SE, SW pattern, if the rose cross assignment were used, they wouldn't align correctly as equally opposing forces. The kerubs seem that they should be placed in this way, and so it makes sense beyond just being an artistic expression, at least to me anyhow.
What seems incorrect in the symbol however is the placement of cups to the left and wands to the right. it just arbitrarily changes the regular placement, and in doing so, makes cups solar and wands lunar. The wand is a lotus wand, and it should of course be a fire wand instead.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
@Sean White said
"What seems incorrect in the symbol however is the placement of cups to the left and wands to the right. it just arbitrarily changes the regular placement, and in doing so, makes cups solar and wands lunar. The wand is a lotus wand, and it should of course be a fire wand instead."
Think of it as if you were wearing it... except then, it's backwards. Water on the right side of the body and Fire on the left side is opposite all other compatible symbolism.
Not sure why you think Water on left, Fire on right is wrong - it's exactly right! That suggest that this is not an emblem to be worn, but rather a picture to be looked at.
The wand is a lotus wand probably because that's the primary implement of an Adeptus Minor, the grade for which the Tarot instruction was prepared.
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93, I was wondering if anyone could please refer me to information on the Crux Ansata (such as the one found in Liber Theta)? I've seen it in Regardie's GD papers, and also in the Equinox however I can't find anything other than that... or if anyone can perhaps explain it?
"Not sure why you think Water on left, Fire on right is wrong - it's exactly right! That suggest that this is not an emblem to be worn, but rather a picture to be looked at. "
I agree but because of the lunar and solar pentacles it means that cups are solar and wands are lunar.