Tzaddi is not the Star
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@Modes said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Exactly! That's what I've said all along. The one that is not rigorously mapped is the zodiac (though, even there, the essential pattern is evident)."I would not call that a pattern because it does not repeat - it's just a zodiac circle crippled at 1 point."
You can't say it doesn't have a pattern just because it has a different pattern than the one you want to see. (And you're only using one half of your cerebral cortex. Get the right hemisphere in play. Don't be so left-sided.)
"I would say you, Jim, are building an argument on an invalid premise"
Start with the attributions (see table in my last post). Then see what patterns exist in them.
"I got the same in my 2007 Book of Thoth print on page 278."
The Book of Thoth is not reedited when it is republished. None of the many small errors have ever been fixed.
"Sorry if I'm disturbing someone, I am just trying to make factual arguments in the discussion and see what are /others factual arguments."
I'm rather lost on what your goal is. I thought it was to understand the pattern. It seems, instead, that you are trying to prove some position of your own instead.
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"Sorry if I'm disturbing someone, I am just trying to make factual arguments in the discussion and see what are /others factual arguments."
@Jim Eshelman said
"I'm rather lost on what your goal is. I thought it was to understand the pattern. It seems, instead, that you are trying to prove some position of your own instead."
I think I understand now the pattern you are trying to show/advocate but I can't see enough factual arguments for me to endorse it myself. I don't have a position myself - I just like to compare/discuss/understand various positions on the topic. Thanks for your help.
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Found it. From the Zohar.
"26. Subsequently, the letter Tzadik appeared before the Creator and said: “Master of the world, You should create the world with me, for Tzadikim (the righteous) are marked by me. You, who is called a Tzadik (righteous one), are also recorded within me, for You are righteous and You love righteousness. Therefore, my properties are suitable to create the world by.”
The Creator answered: “Tzadik, you are truly righteous, but you must remain concealed and not be revealed to the extent required were the world to be created by you, so as to not give the world an excuse.” The concealment of the letter Tzadik is necessary, for first came the letter Nun, which was then joined by the letter Yod from the Creator’s Holy Name Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey (HaVaYaH), who stood above it as a mark of the bond between the Creator and His creations, mounted the letter Nun and joined it on its right hand side, thereby creating the letter Tzadik."
It's... not as suggestive as I thought it was, but somebody tried to make the point once, and it stuck with me.
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Aion, are you sure you aren't thinking of the same remark about Tzaddiy?
Or maybe the paragraph on Heh in 32vPaths of Wisdom? I'm not remembering quote but recall tone as similar.
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Aion, now that I'm not commuting and can look something up... I wonder if you were remembering the tone (more than the specific language) of the paragraph on Hé from The 32 Paths of Wisdom. It translates as follows:
@32PW on H said
"The Fifteenth Path is called the Constituting Consciousness, because it constitutes the Substance of Creation in pure darkness. According to masters of contemplation, this is that darkness referred to in Scripture, “and thick darkness its swaddling band.”"
The phrase I translated “pure darkness” is arafeley tahor. Kaplan, who translated it “Glooms of Purity,” remarked that this expression is found in the Musaf service for Rash Hashanah at the beginning of Shofrot, relating to the revelation at Sinai. Arafeley comes from a similar word meaning “the darkness of clouds” or “thick clouds;” hence Kaplan’s “gloom.” Tahor, “pure” (=220), is the name the mode of consciousness attributed to Y’sod.
"Masters of contemplation" likely means those that have mastered dhyana, and certainly no one without this capacity is likely to be able to perceive the condition described.
The closing phrase. “thick darkness its swaddling band,” is a direct quote from Job 38:9, va-arafel ḥathoollatho.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Aion, are you sure you aren't thinking of the same remark about Tzaddiy?"
I'm not sure why that version I cut and pasted uses "Tzadik" with the k on the end. But, yes, I'm referring to the letter.
Thanks for the quote from 32 Paths of Wisdom as well.
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I wasn't worried about the K. You said you were looking for a quote on Hé being hidden, and I was asking if maybe you meant the passage I referenced about Tzaddiy being hidden (from the Zohar, in the story of how Alef got to be the first letter of the alphabet).
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Aion, are you sure you aren't thinking of the same remark about Tzaddiy?"
Yes, that's the one. I think maybe you missed where I quoted it above your post. It's the first post after the page break, so.. Unless I'm completely missing your intent.
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I am fascinated that this thread has had over 80,000 views!
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I am fascinated that this thread has had over 80,000 views!"
I imagine the subject matter is quite a search-bot magnet. It's also quite a long thread, which means many of us have viewed it again and again and again.
I see it as 80,666 views. 
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Sorry to bump this behemoth back into life, .... but I've been digging into this whole mess lately, and would like to take a stab at summarizing this in as clear a manner as possible (and to verify I have this correct in the first place!)
1: Prior to the Golden Dawn, the generally accepted trump order was that of Eliphas Levi (I won't bother detailing the earlier arrangements), which has the curious quirk of placing '0 - the Fool' between XX and XXI,
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To make it quite clear to initiates that they did not understand the meaning of the card called The Fool, they put him down between Atu cards XX and XXI, for what reason it baffles the human imagination to conceive. They then attributed the card number I, the Juggler, to the letter Aleph. In this simple yet ingenious manner they got the attribution of every card, except The Universe, XXI, wrong.
-- Crowley
"2: Golden Dawn makes two key changes; '0 - the Fool' is promoted to the first of the trumps, advancing all other cards by one letter (which also brings the letter=zodiac attributions in line with the Sepher Yetzirah), and 2: Mathers swaps the ATU images around for Strength (Fortitude) and Justice to 'fix' their images with the zodiac, which pretty clearly depict Leo/Libra. The Roman numbering is preserved by natural order of the cards.
3: "Tzaddi is not the Star", and here we are. Crowley swaps the Emperor & the Star cards, keeping the roman numbers IV & XVII attached to them, and additionally 'restores' the original numerals of Justice as VIII and Strength as XI (his reasoning undoubtedly reinforced by his Qabalistic interpretations of these numbers). It is this arrangement of the 'original' roman numerals, when the zodiac cards are ordered by their hebrew letters, which gives rise to the infamous 'double loop' pattern.
It should be noted though how this change was made, for Crowley has not moved the hebrew letters around for the Tzaddi switch - as HEH remains on path 15 and TZADDI on path 28 - but he has swapped all the other attributes of the Tarot cards: the ATU, roman numeral, and associated zodiac sign. In switching the zodiac signs with his change to IV & XVII, however, he has broken with the Sepher Yetzirah attribution of TZADDI=Aquarius and HE=Aries, and created a one-sided 'loop' in the zodiac.
Situation sound about right?
This is most clearly illustrated as a whole; (see attached image);
center -> out: path#, hebrew letter, zodiac, atu, roman numeral -
Yes, you got it right - in so many words. We have two designs:
Waite Tarot: letters, numbers and zodiac forming a circle
Crowley Thoth Tarot (Jim picked this one): letters, numbers forming a double loop and zodiac forming only a single loop at Leo & LibraAnd My picked imaginary Tarot: letters, numbers and zodiac forming a double loop thus requiring recoloring and change of symbolism the card The Emperor being Tzaddi - Aquarius and The Star - He - Aries. That is why I bought the Marseille's deck.
To put it simple I re quote Jim and myself:
Me: I see in Waite's arrangement a harmony of letters, numbers and zodiac forming a circle.
Jim: Unfortunately, it's wrong. His biggest weakness was in being overly mentally formal (i.e., stuffy).
Me: The double loop in Jim's arrangement has the harmony of letters and numbers but not the zodiac.
Jim: Exactly. The letters vs. numbers pattern seems to be what matters. (Think of it from the point of view of Tarot's designers.) -
I was reading Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo Duquette and the author is incorrect in table 8 & figure 25 claiming that there is a double loop in the zodiac. In accord with table 8 there is no double loop but a single loop from Leo-Virgo-Libra to Libra-Virgo-Leo and therefore figure 25 is incorrect. To make matters worse the author claims that there is a change in sequence "from Aquarius-Pisces-Aries to Aries-Pisces-Aquarius" thereby implying that The Star is Aries and the Emperor is Aquarius but later in the book denies it by stating that The Star is Aquarius and the Emperor is Aries.
Lon Milo Duquette contradicts himself by trying to solve Crowley's contradictions - what a mess. At least Jim finally agreed that there is no double loop in the zodiac in Crowley's Thoth Tarot but Duquette is trying to "understand" and failing to prove the double loop in the zodiac.
Is anyone aware of any books that write about the "tzaddi is not he star" problem besides Aleister Crowley, Freida Harris, Robert Wang, Gareth Knight, and Lon Milo Duquette?
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Okay, mystery solved. I claim that Crowley's innovation is the double loop in the zodiac as opposed Golden Dawn/Waite/Case zodiac circle - anything other is not perfect symmetry. As there is no double loop in the zodiac in Crowley's Thoth Tarot it means that the Thoth Tarot is based on the zodiac circle so the attributions are the same as in Golden Dawn/Waite/Case Tarot - Lust-Teth-Leo being atu 8 and Adjustment-Lamed-Libra 11, The Emperor-He-Aries 4, The Star-Tzaddi-Aquarius. Crowley and Freida Harris created a standard attribution Golden Dawn Tarot pack leaving out "Tzaddi is not the Star"/"double loop in the zodiac" material. The Thoth Tarot book is another matter as it deals with Crowley's various ideas and innovations.
Finally no need to make Crowley's Thoth Tarot what it is not - it is not based on the "Tzaddi is not the Star" material it's attributions are totally the same as Waite/Case Tarot. Unfortunately I haven't seen a deck made with the "double loop in the zodiac" attributions and colors so I use Marseilles Tarot for these.