No longer interested in ritual magic?
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DWTWSBTWOTL
I'm not being negative but, at present, although I agree with doing ritualistic hygiene work, drawing energy in, I am no longer interested in using "magic" ritual to try to "make things happen" i.e. manifest things in Assiah anymore. Believe you me, when I was younger it was important for me to try that and it gave me a thrill when I magically manifested events and circumstances. I think I was more of an idiot then i.e. too lazy or misinformed to work on proper yogas and besides I have since had counselling.
I believe, or know that anything we desire we can have if we release that desire without attachment, into the gap between thoughts, during yoga; it will manifest* but only if * we pay off our karmic debts for ourselves.
Having a desire thwarted when we least expect it, is the perfect way that we pay off our karmic debts because it usually takes us by surprise and causes suffering. Therefore, why engage in evocation or invocation to charge a talisman to "make tings happen". We can instead, work on paying off our karmic debts and just think the desire to manifest during meditation and then just wait.
What happened? Did I become a mystic or just grow out of damaged ego patterns or am I ignorant?
Cheers.
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@gerry456 said
"What happened? Did I become a mystic or just grow out of damaged ego patterns or am I ignorant?
"DWTWSBTWOTL
Nah. I don't think you're ignorant. I think it's all that magical hygiene catching up. As I'd discussed in some other thread long ago (involving one of those knights who go NAY, and so may be a non-existent thread now) it's kind of like that for me. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I'm uninterested in rituals - but they've rather simplified themselves to the point I simply finding myself in that slipped into space you describe and then I touch a base of reality again, and then what I envisioned comes to light.
But like dancing... I like to dance sometimes, even all alone. Even in public, for no reason, and to my own tunes. Like a really good bicycle moment, when I'm in a groove, I'm dancing with my bike and the road and the traffic and other obstacles. I'm in a zone and loving it. Magick happens for me then too. And like dancing, I sometimes like to enact fancy rites with myself. I don't do as much "spurting of the blood" as I did when younger, but I think that's just due to age.
LITL, LUW
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I get it man yeah so in effect I'm kind of realizing, maybe, that rituals of intent are really about preliminary training for us to reach the in-the-zone state that you describe? Don't get me wrong I may get into rituals and evocations in some way in the future I don't know yet.
To add, I remember I had a desire for people to pay for some of my online advice services. I was sort of "nudged" by my Higher Self to try evocation to induce success with this endeavour. It felt right, not like an ego desire because the main intent was to get some real evocation experience. Needless to say I used an evoked spirit to get me some customers and sure enough I received an order then a week later as I recall another and another. It was a cluster of successful orders which hasn't happened since or before and all without any marketing whatsoever.
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Yeah, I believe you mentioned that in the thread I was referring to. One of my examples was how I had a laundry mishap and needed an entire (nearly) new wardrobe. I fell into a trance or swoon while folding and then came out saying, "yeah, I've got this." And then when I was at home a few days later, a lady client of mine called me and said, "Hey, I found this new discount clothing outlet here in Arizona. Do you mind if I send you some clothes?" and I said I don't mind it at all! She asked for my size and my tastes. I told her, "Well, at home, and mostly, just think jeans and t-shirts. And I'm fond of logos and stuff if they have them. I particularly like advertising unique or obscure brands. Around town, think Hunter S. Thompson. Go floral and tropical if you can." She replaced my damaged wardrobe almost exactly.
I still kept my orange long sleeve shirt with the "Lucky" brand on it, even though it's mostly tatters - but I never wear it outside my property. She nearly replaced it identical but it's a short sleeve shirt and the brand is a bar in Phoenix of some kind. But it's the same orange! How that happened is beyond my understanding because the orange is of particular use to me when I do go outside. In other words, the "Lucky" shirt was originally used as a sort of talisman, and the new one (let me go to my room and see the brand)... oh wow! That's right, it's for "Lucky Shots Cantina." and it has the slogan "Locals Only." How amazing is that? And she could have no idea because she only knows me through telephone calls and emails. And the shirt perfectly replaces for the "ritual" I use it for as it has the same orange (important), the word "Lucky," and it was gifted me by a woman.
So maybe it's just that all the work has fruition. But unless one is retired, one should still work at least enough to maintain the bills.
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"I'm not being negative but, at present, although I agree with doing ritualistic hygiene work, drawing energy in, I am no longer interested in using "magic" ritual to try to "make things happen" i.e. manifest things in Assiah anymore. Believe you me, when I was younger it was important for me to try that and it gave me a thrill when I magically manifested events and circumstances."
This is an age old "argument" in magic. Making shit happen in Assiah is a "lust of results," or phenomenal magic and phenomenal magic is not magick per se.
This desire for externalized results is naive and is informed by a desire for power. Very likely you have evolved and are more mature than when it was important to you to manifest events and circumstances.
Ritual in the more mature individual is directed internally and is a form of discipline applied to the accomplishment union with the Divine/Knowlege and Conversation/etc...
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@augur said
"This is an age old "argument" in magic. Making (****) happen in Assiah is a "lust of results," or phenomenal magic and phenomenal magic is not magick per se.
This desire for externalized results is naive and is informed by a desire for power. Very likely you have evolved and are more mature than when it was important to you to manifest events and circumstances.
Ritual in the more mature individual is directed internally and is a form of discipline applied to the accomplishment union with the Divine/Knowlege and Conversation/etc..."
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The only cause of anything is everything.
That is, each thing is as it is because the whole universe is as it is. In Thelemic language (where Hadit is anything and Nuit is everything), each event or consequence or result is the resultant of the totality of all things whatsoever in the universe.
But, then, so are you.
To pick a magical objective that is fully in conformity with your True Will, that objective must be consistent with the necessity of the universe, i.e., a natural outcome of everything being exactly the way it is.
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I hear that someone who has achieved K&C and 6=5 etc, cannot, if you like, cast a spell that fails but those beneath 5=6 can and do have their intent halted.
Thinking about AC, I cannot recall if, after his K&C he wrote that a talismanic charging never yielded results. Did he ever admit to failure to manifest desire magickally post 5=6 and if so , what went wrong...or how could it go wrong?
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Of course he did. Study his published record.
In particular, the farther he went, the clearer he became that he was utterly impotent to accomplish any purpose whatsoever except the direct fulfillment of his True Will: "To teach the Next Step." The Magus is narrower than the tyro, because the Magus has one, and only one, thing that he or she can do, which is the one thing for which he or she was made in the first place. The whole of his or her energy is committed, by decades of consecration, to a single end.
You can find reference to these ideas in Magick Without Tears IIRC, and probably in some footnotes and remarks in Magick in Theory & Practice.
OTOH, the same principle applies to everyone at all stages (except for those who still possess that sublime ignorance called "beginner's luck"): The principle is that if you pick an aim not in alignment with your True Will, then either (1) it will fail or (2) you will derail yourself from your own path. That's much of the sublime power of the 6=5, that by fulfilling the tasks of the Paths of Meym and Lamed, the Adept has deeply joined his or her nature to the Word of the HGA, and lives more or less for no other purpose than to be the device of the extension of that Word. In fact, it's quite impossible for anyone who has succeeded in the task of the Path of Lamed to wander from that Word without either a serious derangement or when making a substantial sacrifice (and perhaps a futile one at that).
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Or, "Wyrd."
Magical ritual is essentially just balancing yourself. As Takamba said, like dancing. You dance to feel yourself and coordinate yourself within your space, and within your own body.
All this talk of "manifesting change within/upon Malkuth reality" is utter nonsense, as we learn that Malkuth is illusion. Becoming the buddha, or the Christ, the Horus, etc.. that is the goal. The more one performs ritual magic, the more one is accustomed to one's self and one's surroundings.
And on the point...
So, walking down the street, you re-coordinate your feet with the level of the ground, since you last walked, you feel the weight of your body and recoordinate that as well. But it's not enough.
Dancing is a little better, but can be used as a complete ritual if the proper foods/drinks/herbs are used.(And I can always dance better if I've been casting circles.)
Eating cabbage, beans, carrots and beef. Same thing, you get your nutrients, you live for another day, you even coordinate your teeth and tounge with the rest of your mouth, but it's not enough.
Wine and strange drugs, combined with dancing seems to be the ultimate exaltation unto the Goddess.This, in turn, with copulating. (But those who drink too much or do not eat enough of the "smarter" herbs might find themselves lacking time for the aforementioned practices, in debt to the new life they created while in stupor.)
The Butterfly Net. or Moonchild, I believe, a good place to look to find a third-person perspective on why magic at all.
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@ThelemicMage said
"All this talk of "manifesting change within/upon Malkuth reality" is utter nonsense, as we learn that Malkuth is illusion."
Wait a minute, that's really flawed logic. (It's even an enthymeme.) Your suppressed second assumption is, "Manifesting change in illusion is utter nonsense."
I can't think of an easier object for manifesting change than illusion! If we accept the principle that "Malkuth is [only] illusion," then the right conclusion is that "manifesting change within/upon Malkuth reality" is easy and actual.
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You do prove an important point. But what he is stating is that it isn't "easy and actual". I suppose what I was really going for was to suggest "working without lust of result." Instead, I have dropped a line that could be interpreted a number a paradoxical ways, suggesting I was probably drunk at the time. Which I was.
All in all, practicing regularly will make you good at something. Be it the dance of dance, the dance of ritual, or the dance of celestial objects. Is it Abramelin where you circle your wand in the air as you go from quarter to quarter? That's some good stuff right there.
