Hitler and Master Therion

Ab-ul-Az

"No one else here is interested in Hitler, just you. So you figure it out.
hermetic.com/crowley/libers/index#number"
What makes you so sure? Let's see what others think, we are all here to explore ideas and possibilities.
Thanks for the link.

"That he was a Black Brother? Do you not agree with that assessment?"
I'm not sure about this part, but I definitely don't agree with his views regarding his politics.
As genius as the Master was, I don't think he was quite aware of what have been really going on in Germany, and that's definitely not all his fault, besides the fact that politics isn't his profession.

My impression from what I've read, he seemed to like him, but quite in denial.
'Before Hitler was, I am.'

He keeps mentioning him now and then, I guess he liked how he executed his Will and the way the German people reacted to it. I'm sure Jim has a better answer than me regarding the Black brother thing.

"Every man and and every woman is a star. A Jewish star is as bright and as beautiful and as familiar as every other star in NOX and in LVX."
Sure, outside of Germany though.

Ab-ul-Az

I remember once reading that what happened to Fortune and Crowley at the end of their lives was actually karmic because of their 'magical' involvement against the Reich. A failed test by the Secret Chiefs? A blood betrayal? If the former is correct, then their passed vehicles are definitely working up their karma in the astral to initiate new students not against the Fuhrer.

What do you think?

mark0987

"What do you think? "

Sounds like utter nonsense.

Let's forget karma for a second and just focus on Thelema. It is inherently clear that Hitler was not a Thelemite, the fact that he committed mass genocide with a focus on religious beliefs, colour, sexuality, and disability clearly goes against the premise of three of the main teachings derived from the book of the Law:

"Every man and every woman is a star."
"The Law is for all."
"Love is the law, love under will".

Now from my own researches of Crowley's life I believe he was interested in Hitler, who wouldn't be? If someone is threatening the entire world's way of life, you will want to know something about him. As far as I am aware, Crowley thought him an idiot, or someone who certainly had a twisted mind. I cannot recall the exact words used, but Crowley wrote marginalia in Hitler's "Mein Kampf" which clearly was not in support of Hitler.

Furthermore, a disciple in Germany knew Hitler, her name was Martha something or other I believe, she passed on Liber Legis to Hitler apparently, against Crowley's wishes. It was in correspondence to her he shared further disagreements about Hitler in terms of the law of Thelema.

As for the Secret Chiefs, their motives are never clear. What they are isn't even clear. If they exist at all is debatable. But, I would imagine given Crowley's clear belief in them and the fact that he always heeded their advice (for the most part) that if the secret chiefs wanted Crowley to side with Hitler, he would have done.

Now in my opinion Crowley lived to a great age considering the life he lead and the drugs he ingested on a regular basis. 72 is not a bad age and as far as I am aware he had all of his mental capacities intact and was even still taking scarlet women until the age of 70! He had health problems way before Hitler came on the scene and I think it was a miracle he lasted as long as he did. I have known people live their lives making far healthier choices and die younger. I know very little about Dion Fortune's life, so cannot say anything about her.

So in my opinion not karma from doing the right thing and standing against Hitler in his own way, but merely old age and life catching up with him.

Ab-ul-Az

@mark0987 said

""Every man and every woman is a star."
"The Law is for all."
"Love is the law, love under will"."
The only thing I find that seems to be superficially against the Law in the Reich is the fact how ridiculously homogeneous it was, but the Reich in itself was almost a rite, a ritual against the forces at that time (whoever you're siding with). Let's assume Hitler was doing his True Will, no one said 'nay' from those around him obviously, they actually served him with their hearts wide open, and this what confuses me the most; how could a Sorcerer (as Crowley once remarked) do that? I'm afraid we'll have to go through a lot of history, politics and magick to clear things up.

postimg dot org/n72n63rdv/nu1.jpg

"As for the Secret Chiefs, their motives are never clear. What they are isn't even clear. If they exist at all is debatable. But, I would imagine given Crowley's clear belief in them and the fact that he always heeded their advice (for the most part) that if the secret chiefs wanted Crowley to side with Hitler, he would have done."
What I'm saying is, what IF that was one of his ordeals as the Beast? I believe as millennials we got things to learn from both sides, to inspire us in our evolution.

I'm quite aware many in the West are still ignorant about what actually happened in WW II, but this is gradually changing, let's hope to the better.

Ab-ul-Az

Here's the quote I mentioned, it seems he referred to him more specifically as a Black Magician, and a distinction exists between it and a Black Brother.

"Mark well this first distinction: the "Black Magician" or Sorcerer is hardly even a distant cousin of the "Black Brother." The difference between a sneak-thief and a Hitler is not too bad an analogy.

The Sorcerer may be—indeed he usually is—a thwarted disappointed man whose aims are perfectly natural. Often enough, his real trouble is ignorance; and by the time he has become fairly hot stuff as a Black Magician, he has learnt that he is getting nowhere, and finds himself, despite himself, on the True Path of the Wise.

"Invoking Zeus to swell the power of Pan,
The prayer discomfits the demented man;
Lust lies as still as Love."

Thereupon he casts away his warlock apparatus like a good little boy, finds the A.'.A.'., and lives happily ever after."
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/mwt/mwt_12.htm

mark0987

Those around Hitler did not say nay, mostly because they feared him and his regime, most of the western world did say nay and brought him down. Perhaps if he had been following his true will he would have been a better leader.

Not to mention imprisoning innocent people is inhibiting their true wills, which is inherently against Thelema. There is nothing magical about the way Hitler influenced people, politicians today use the same tactics. Influencing the fear of a people and providing a scapegoat to blame everything on. There's a reason the tories are in power over here in the UK and Donald Trump is in power in the US. They play on "immingrants could be terrorists, terrorists are evil, we will all die if the other guy gets inpower and lets more immigration occur!."

Fear is a powerful tool, and majority is always afraid of minorities, it is a simple fact which has been shown all the way through history. Hitler was not the first to use it and he wasn't the last. If it was his true will to commit genocide, perhaps it was the allies true will to stop it.

You only have to look at classic social psychology experiments to understand how Hitler rose up to gain power and why so many followed his rule. Just look at Milgram's study on obedience which sought to understand why nazis would happliy slaughter people.

You simply can't state that the West does not understand what happened, the West certainly does, the bulk of the war took place in the West. There are numerous records and historical evidence about what occurred in concentration camps. In fact, Karl Germer was in a concentration camp himself.

I won't pretend to be a politician, I am not. But what I do know as a Thelemite is that there is no justification for killing innocent people on nothing more than what they want to believe, how they want to live, or who they want to sleep with. In fact, there is no justification for fearing or hating them either, so long as they abide by the same principles also.

I very much doubt you will find Nazi sympathisers within Thelema, if you do, I doubt they have read much of Crowley. I also doubt they understand the core principles of Thelema. I think the two ideologies conflict right at the core.

As for Hitler being a black brother, I won't comment on that. I dislike using A.'.A.'. terminology and applying it to an individual who was not in the A.'.A.'.. I leave that for someone more familiar with the system than me.

Ab-ul-Az

Mark, I'm afraid you didn't get your facts right about Germany.
There were definitely concentration camps, though not in the way the allies propaganda exaggerated.
I doubt fear would produce the majestic rallies of Nuremberg or the German Art Processions, check them out for yourself. Carl Jung theorized that Hitler was possessed by the collective group-soul of the German race, referring to the Wotan archetype, really interesting stuff that also makes sense, bearing in mind what was happening then during the depression. Some even went so far to call him an avatar.

Hitler advocated that every race should have pride in itself, and considered it a healthy thing, looking up for ideals within the frontiers of each nation or ethnic group, that's in my opinion the whole thing about being an Aryan, as simple as that. It's ironic that while the Reich admitted this in public, the Jewish faith secretly see in every gentile a candidate for a servant for Israel when it's established. So, which one here is ridding people of their Will? I could babble all day about this, but I'm trying to be as brief as possible.

I have to correct some things though, it seems I took the analogy Crowley made quite literally, my bad. But that's because he kept mentioning him while using magical and mystical terms and references, so he really did 'see' something in him.

P.S.
Check the works of David Irving and Arthur Butz.

gerry456

First off, if you scan the history of the 20th century it is marred or marked by a big blatant occult symbol, THE SWASTIKA. I mean , wtf, that one image encapsulates the 20th century. Clearly, Hitler and the Nazis emerged from out of the Victorian occult underground resurgence and as a reaction against dissatisfaction with centuries of Christian dominance. More to the point, European white people reaching out (or a reaching in) to some sort of deep genetic link with the Vedantic culture from which they emerged centuries ago?. The Aryan race? A lot of Indian people resemble European man.....

Anyway, WARNING, the following post will contain references to wackadoo neo Nazis youtube videos. Now, use your own discernment in gleaning any truth being spouted by these miscreants. Apparently (according to some) Hitler did not want war. His peace offers were constantly rejected by the western powers. He simply wanted self-defence, the dispersed German people to be protected in one Reich. Imagine that. Bullshit? Well yes he was a known fuck.ing war monger, so fvcked up that war gave this guy pleasure BUT there may be elements of truth in there about allied hypocrisy and attempts at building up the racial Reich as the primary drive......then again.. .maybe not

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVF3A3lUbSo

There's a lot of youtube videos on Hitler's speeches. Now yes, he's overgeneralizing BUT when he used the term"the Jews" he, more often than not, was referring to, what he somehow knew, was a small elite of ultra mega rich INTERNATIONALIST financiers who CONTROL, apparently, the entire world, all governments, all media, all agendas and they can instigate and fund all wars and are secretly behind all of the policies of the "democratic" governments. You'd have to be an idiot not to see that world finance and a lot of other capitalist enterprises are run by guys with Jewish names. No? I'm just sayin'

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVZN6OsV__E

This is apparently why Hitler railed against democracy, he saw it as hypocricy, as an internationalist financier scam. Globalism basically. Apparently every major bank is controlled by them and every country cannot do anything without their help. See what you make of this 6 minute video, it sums it all up;

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzIRG525l6

and this on how Germany was bled dry from the outside and sent into hyperinflation and terrible mass poverty, the Judean boycotting of German goods and the Nazi reaction to this, Hitler's non reliance on international finance and his self-determined economic miracle etc www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKaOppuNsI

Hitler blatantly stated that he wanted to take the internationalist financiers on by determining his people's own affairs for themselves. What he apparently did, without outside financial help from them, is considered an economic miracle. That's when they came for him with their tools which were Britain and the USA etc. Rothschilds etc.... this is all according to the Nazi worldview. You see any truth there? Note also that a fucked up person like Hitler would find freedom, any freedom as a threat to his psyche and this would explain his aversion to democracy.

Btw, apparently the same elite control the media, Hollywood and the Soviet government. I used to think the ramblings about Jewish Bolveshism was total and utter bullshvt but it makes sense that Russian Jews would seek power to put an end to pogroms etc and would therefore be the driving force behind Communism in Russia.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2vp_OoT8DI&t=493

There is apparently evidence that major capitalist financial backing was given to the early Soviet movement. Why would capitalists (apparently American Jews) fund Communism? Fantasist Nazi conspiracy crap or Jewish collusion?

So, what do these ("jews"? "Zionists?) Globalists want to do according to those "in the know", according to Hitler? Erode all racial identity and nationalist consciousness and promote racial interbreeding whilst refusing to mix with non Jews. A coffee coloured slave class. Hitler said "it was the jew who first brought the negro into the Rhineland". Apparently, according to Nazis, goyim means cattle. Hitler was all about Wagner (a known lunatic) and keeping the Viking culture alive against what they both saw as insidious alien oppressors. You remember those Viking pagan festivals that were promoted during the Reich? So Hitler maybe saw himself as the righteous Wizard involved in a Ring Cycle occult war against greed and the "Mickey Mouse" culture of Jewish run Hollywood. He didn't dig jazz either and preferred the more "cultured" compositions of the great German composers.....what a fucking schmuck! I once saw an interview with a jazz musician who was in a Nazi prison camp, he said "we (jazz musicians) loved each other......they (the SS) hated each other.

The Nazis also saw Jewish journalists and intelligentsia as the instigators of the"degenerate" sex obsessed culture of Weimar Berlin as an affront against family values. The Nazis see Jews as being overrepresented and as the force behind massive economic crashes www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaNljiodguw What was that guy's name? Bernard Madoff? That sort of thing.

Do your research on the Balfour Declaration, apparently the Jewish financiers who control the USA, brought the USA into world war one if the allies were to give them Palestine. This is how the Jewish homeland deal was set up. The Germans had won The Great War at one stage and they made peace offers but then the USA interfered. This is the great Jewish Betrayal that Hitler often referred to. www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp6iwTRHXrA The USA entered the war at the behest of their Zionist puppet masters.

Where Hitler got this information or disinformation from is beyond me but it gives insight into his worldview as a Viking sorcerer.

A further point, apparently noone can deny that Hollywood was created by a small group of Jewish immigrants and it's influence on the world is undeniable. The Italians have gone down in history as being involved in notorious gangster activity perpetuated by the Hollywood myth about the mafia when in fact the major mobsters were, according to the Nazi worldview, Jewish

Bullshit? I don't know.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish-American_organized_crime

When the Nazi revolution took place the students made bonfires and Freud, Marx and writings on feminism were thrown into the fire. Freud was replaced by Jung. Was Jung was a Nazi sympathiser? He sure would've dug their archetypal racial mysticism voodoo.

If you want the total lowdown, par excellence, on why and how Hitler rose to power then go to Dr Wilhelm Reich's The Mass Psychology of Fascism

In Thelemic terms, (this is getting complex) Reich describes fascism as a sicko sadistic defence mechanism against the power one feels during sexual orgasm. This power has been subjugates by authoritarian regimes and religions since...oh,.....ancient times, pre "civilization". In fact the orgasmic release is restricted as a means to create "civilization" if I'm not mistaken.

In effect therefore, Hitler was not a righteous New Aeon wizard but was the end result of (to use Thelemic jargon) "Osirisian" poisonous crap. Just one dictator in a very very long line, only he was not an aristocrat of course.

However, to add to the confusion, a lot of the Nazi urges and yearnings were essentially pagan and Nietzschean i.e. anti-Christian (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensreform and Himmler's SS mystical wackiness.....wow ...those uniforms eh? ) ...but ultimately the average neo Nazi is an "armoured" thug full of undischarged repressed sexual energy, anyone can work that one out.

To add further irony here, Wilhelm Reich would have disapproved of all and any mystical supernatural thought (including the basis of this forum i.e belief in gods, angels and magic etc) as fuel for fascism..... Reich was a convinced 100% materialist and would've spat FURY at any talk of supernaturalism and of course at Crowley's sexually perverted character.

Ab-ul-Az

Haha that comment was both entertaining and enlightening in a weird way, though I don't agree with this Reich guy's analysis of fascism, too narrow and 'analogical', which is expected from a materialist.

Ab-ul-Az

I'm thinking of sharing some Esoteric Hitlerism stuff here and discuss it in the light of Thelema, to see where they meet and depart, and in relation to the Mystery Tradition in general.

I've been reading Miguel Serrano, quite an interesting guy though his writing seems fluffy and very 'Latin' sometimes, but he claims to be an initiate and talks about Ultima Thule in a beautiful way, anyone is familiar with his work?

gerry456

@Abdulaziz said

"Haha that comment was both entertaining and enlightening in a weird way, though I don't agree with this Reich guy's analysis of fascism, too narrow and 'analogical', which is expected from a materialist.

"

"This Reich guy".

Jesus.

Someone educate this guy here.

Ab-ul-Az

@gerry456 said

"
@Abdulaziz said
"Haha that comment was both entertaining and enlightening in a weird way, though I don't agree with this Reich guy's analysis of fascism, too narrow and 'analogical', which is expected from a materialist.

"

"This Reich guy".

Jesus.

Someone educate this guy here."

I just googled him and it seems he's friends with Freud, no wonder I didn't like him.

gerry456

@Abdulaziz said

"[
I just googled him and it seems he's friends with Freud, no wonder I didn't like him."

Ok i'm assuming you're not long out of childhood.

How about search him in the annals of this forum?

Start with this <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3435&p=87399&hilit=reich#p87399">viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3435&p=87399&hilit=reich#p87399</a>

Ab-ul-Az

@gerry456 said

"Ok i'm assuming you're not long out of childhood.

How about search him in the annals of this forum?

heruraha dot net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3435&p=87399&hilit=reich#p87399

I have to say that the armor aspect in relation to both mind and body got me interested, but heruraha dot net/viewtopic.php?p=87411#p87411:606wyqsn) sums it up well. Thanks anyhow.

Ab-ul-Az

So far from what I've read by Serrano, these three things caught my attention the most:

The demiurge as wholly 'evil' and the god of Jews
Green Ray of the Black Sun
Nordic (Hyperborean) people as proto-human

Before I get into any of these, please guys try to be neutral and scientific regardless of the political aspect of the thing, since who knows, this might lead to Love.

About the demiurge, it makes sense to me somehow if the Jews happened to worship him even if their Scriptures doesn't say so directly, it's their attitudes and collective soul that proves it. I hope I'm making sense, by that I mean, they worship the Universe itself NOT the transcendent Source/Father, which helps them as the 'chosen' people in their covenant, becoming an energetic compass for him through the Tetragrammaton, a gift they wasted and that's why Jesus was born. He also mentions something about the automated universe and their (the Jews) army of ants, probably something similar to 'the slaves shall serve', except definitely not in the same Thelemic spirit.

Here's the quote about the Green Ray:

"There is nothing more mysterious than blood. Paracelsus considered it a condensation of light. I believe that the Aryan, Hyperborean blood is that – but not the light of the Golden Sun, not of a galactic sun, but of the light of the Black Sun, of the Green Ray."

What do you make of it? I believe Blavatsky mentioned this sun in her magnum opus.

Finally the Norse, he claim that humanity is in a state of 'involution' (the existence of lower races), rather than evolution, and that we are being rid of this eternal memory in our DNA by this 'demiurgic' universe. I don't necessarily agree with the latter, but I think it's worth studying from his perspective, especially when you bear in mind the phenomena of Nordic aliens, Venusians and Pleiadians. On the other hand, I know many will find this as mere propaganda and excuse for supremacy.

gerry456

@Abdulaziz said

"So far from what I've read by Serrano, these three things caught my attention the most:

The demiurge as wholly 'evil' and the god of Jews
Green Ray of the Black Sun
Nordic (Hyperborean) people as proto-human

Before I get into any of these, please guys try to be neutral and scientific regardless of the political aspect of the thing, since who knows, this might lead to Love.

About the demiurge, ..................................

What do you make of it? .."

"Demiurge" "God", call it what you will. Humanity was always isolated into little geographical sections. Each stupid section (race) made their own "God".

Look at the division that that crap caused.

Ab-ul-Az

@gerry456 said

""Demiurge" "God", call it what you will. Humanity was always isolated into little geographical sections. Each stupid section (race) made their own "God".

Look at the division that that crap caused."

Because that's the nature of the beast, my friend.
If we keep ignoring and denying the fact we as species are varied and in conflict (even within our being and kinsfolk); it will cause greater catastrophe, which we are slowly witnessing, thanks to the utopian and erroneous distribution of freedom notions by politicians with questionable history and conduct.

Also, I'm afraid your comment shows how little you understand of the Invisible College's mechanism, let alone the subject I'm actually talking about.

gerry456

I was thinking about my post about Hitler and his so called peace offerings.

You could take any war mongering tyrant from history and bend the facts to make it look like they wanted peace. It could even be done with Genghis Khan.

gerry456

@Abdulaziz said

"
Also, I'm afraid your comment shows how little you understand of the Invisible College's mechanism, let alone the subject I'm actually talking about."

Invisible College.

Please explain then what the Invisible College is. Who is chancellor there? Prof Xavier?

Ab-ul-Az

@gerry456 said

"Invisible College.

Please explain then what the Invisible College is. Who is chancellor there? Prof Xavier?"

As the Master himself say in Liber LXI vel Causae:
"In all systems of religion is to be found a system of Initiation, which may be defined as the process by which a man comes to learn that unknown Crown."