Theory of Divination
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@LD330 said
"So what is the proper method for divination?"
Technically I would say that all methods are true; save only that they understand a little. On the other hand, considering what Crowley himself taught (not with my books to cite, but I'd recommend indexing Magick Without Tears and Liber ABA: Magick), a most "proper" method is from a system most approximating your best total conception of the universe. Astrology, skrying, tarot, geomancy, bibliomancy, and even any mancy your own ingenium creates for you, are all equally "proper" methods. Skry into a bowl darkly, bibliomance your holiest or most communicative tome, study the varietals of tarot and let your intuition study charts. Toss 3 coins six different times in succession for some time and see ifwhatany works for you.
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I was always so/so about divination. I never suspected it would work properly, that there would always be a sense of 'oh I'm doing this' .Tarot divination in practice was one of them - I couldn't conceive of myself making up a story of the cards that I didn't know already.
So the other night I experimented on the spur of the moment with Bibliomancy, or Thelemamancy using the Holy Books hardback edition. I was yet to read Liber VII c 2 but answers came cogent with that Chapter - which I was to find after I'd read it.Here is the diary entry 17 March.
Invoke HRU over Book
'What is the highest aspiration of my soul so I may be able to construct a motto'
Let book open, let finger fall where it will on page.
'VALLUM' = 'Rampart' Value 70 , equal to Ayin.Check with Sephir Sephiroth - first entry 'A proper Name'.
Q'Who is communicating this'
Let book fall etc.
A'Adonai'
Q. Asked Adonai 'Who am I?'
A: 'Serpente' = 92 in latin simplex. Not sure what Gematria to use. But 'Adonai' could be telling the literal truth here. Hadit is mankinds self.
Q.'What is my name''
A. 'Abominable' (not checked Gematria yet because in English and unsure of the system) but interesting
Re-communed as best I could with HRU and re-asked -' What is my name'
A. Do what Thou Wilt ( I took this to mean it had already been answered and I could choose to listen or no)
Q 'Are you my HGA'
A. 'The Manifestation of Nuit is at an end.'00.45
Sun 19th
'Rampart was clearly and explicitly heard in meditation while in Asana'
Looked at etymology of Rampart 'Prepare Before' Is the Angel asking me to prepare the holy place for him to dwell?Tues 21/3
Bibliomancy
Q. Is Rampart my motto?
A. All Words and Signs.
Felt it wasn't complete so let the book fall
' All words and signs - 'before the master'
Q.Are words and signs allowed and valid in this question and answer?
A. Book falls on the Seal of the AA. - I'm taking that as a yes.
Q' So I have to figure out the meaning of Rampart.
A. 'That'
Closing 'Stay with me always my angel ' let the book fall instinctively -
A. 'Infinity'. - Very moving result.Gematria after results-
Rampart in Hebrew Transliteration = 352 = 10. TEN is certainly and always has been my personal number. I remembered when I was 2 years old betting on which numbered house this mouse would go into and I remember clearly a being speaking 10 to me. I knew this being well . The mouse of course went into the 10 house.
Correspondences that stood out in 352 Bill H's works were:
Messenger' (Angel)
'Gobi Desert' Where I used to live.Well - on the shores of it.
Amon Ra. - I was yet to read that Chapter of Liber VII
God in the Flesh. - Self explanatory.
Also found ASIMA - 'High Celestial' 'Name of God'
Two results for this. Asima - the female fate goddess from root 'Shimiti' which means 'The Name'
And the Male counterpart for Aleph Shin Yod Mem Aleph is Ashima - 'a he goat ', 'the short haired goat' of the Hamathites regarded idential to PAN. Which Brings us right back to LIber VII and Liber Vallum which started this.
So the Name. Three different ways of looking at the Supernals (Binah , the ramparts of trees, and the goat in the midst from LIber VII) . And a personal message contained in 10.I checked Sephir Sephirot for 352
The Exalted light - This stood out because the motto I signed in the self-dedication ritual was All In The Clear Light from Liber Al vel Legis C 1.
Next - Long of Nose! This is what my girlfriend calls - a running joke. It's not small.April 2nd.
Finally last night I found my old diaries and the Gematria of All in the clear light.
It was exactly the same as the very first answer I received.
70. The same number as Ramparts. Ayin - Devil - Pan.So a very interesting first foray into something I was pretty sure I had nothing to lose in trying! I'm still not sure if I need to find out Greek or Welsh or something for the Watch Tower/Ramparts/Prepare Beforehand - concept but I know that Frater Ramparts doesn't roll off the tongue - Frater All in the clear Light too for that matter.
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@gerry456 said
"How about the chapter on Divination in* MITAP*?"
I have read that divination chapter on Tarot 30 times. It makes less sense every time I read it, vastly complicated and I've not seen an easy explanation of what he means. It's like trying to learn pool through the rules.
If you can find a video or easier explanation then I may give it another go, though I baulk at learning astrology in that detail. -
@Anchorite said
"I was always so/so about divination. I never suspected it would work properly, that there would always be a sense of 'oh I'm doing this' .Tarot divination in practice was one of them - I couldn't conceive of myself making up a story of the cards that I didn't know already.
So the other night I experimented on the spur of the moment with Bibliomancy, or Thelemamancy using the Holy Books hardback edition. I was yet to read Liber VII c 2 but answers came cogent with that Chapter - which I was to find after I'd read it.Here is the diary entry 17 March.
Invoke HRU over Book
'What is the highest aspiration of my soul so I may be able to construct a motto'
Let book open, let finger fall where it will on page.
'VALLUM' = 'Rampart' Value 70 , equal to Ayin.Check with Sephir Sephiroth - first entry 'A proper Name'.
Q'Who is communicating this'
Let book fall etc.
A'Adonai'
Q. Asked Adonai 'Who am I?'
A: 'Serpente' = 92 in latin simplex. Not sure what Gematria to use. But 'Adonai' could be telling the literal truth here. Hadit is mankinds self.
Q.'What is my name''
A. 'Abominable' (not checked Gematria yet because in English and unsure of the system) but interesting
Re-communed as best I could with HRU and re-asked -' What is my name'
A. Do what Thou Wilt ( I took this to mean it had already been answered and I could choose to listen or no)
Q 'Are you my HGA'
A. 'The Manifestation of Nuit is at an end.'00.45
Sun 19th
'Rampart was clearly and explicitly heard in meditation while in Asana'
Looked at etymology of Rampart 'Prepare Before' Is the Angel asking me to prepare the holy place for him to dwell?Tues 21/3
Bibliomancy
Q. Is Rampart my motto?
A. All Words and Signs.
Felt it wasn't complete so let the book fall
' All words and signs - 'before the master'
Q.Are words and signs allowed and valid in this question and answer?
A. Book falls on the Seal of the AA. - I'm taking that as a yes.
Q' So I have to figure out the meaning of Rampart.
A. 'That'
Closing 'Stay with me always my angel ' let the book fall instinctively -
A. 'Infinity'. - Very moving result.Gematria after results-
Rampart in Hebrew Transliteration = 352 = 10. TEN is certainly and always has been my personal number. I remembered when I was 2 years old betting on which numbered house this mouse would go into and I remember clearly a being speaking 10 to me. I knew this being well . The mouse of course went into the 10 house.
Correspondences that stood out in 352 Bill H's works were:
Messenger' (Angel)
'Gobi Desert' Where I used to live.Well - on the shores of it.
Amon Ra. - I was yet to read that Chapter of Liber VII
God in the Flesh. - Self explanatory.
Also found ASIMA - 'High Celestial' 'Name of God'
Two results for this. Asima - the female fate goddess from root 'Shimiti' which means 'The Name'
And the Male counterpart for Aleph Shin Yod Mem Aleph is Ashima - 'a he goat ', 'the short haired goat' of the Hamathites regarded idential to PAN. Which Brings us right back to LIber VII and Liber Vallum which started this.
So the Name. Three different ways of looking at the Supernals (Binah , the ramparts of trees, and the goat in the midst from LIber VII) . And a personal message contained in 10.I checked Sephir Sephirot for 352
The Exalted light - This stood out because the motto I signed in the self-dedication ritual was All In The Clear Light from Liber Al vel Legis C 1.
Next - Long of Nose! This is what my girlfriend calls - a running joke. It's not small.April 2nd.
Finally last night I found my old diaries and the Gematria of All in the clear light.
It was exactly the same as the very first answer I received.
70. The same number as Ramparts. Ayin - Devil - Pan.So a very interesting first foray into something I was pretty sure I had nothing to lose in trying! I'm still not sure if I need to find out Greek or Welsh or something for the Watch Tower/Ramparts/Prepare Beforehand - concept but I know that Frater Ramparts doesn't roll off the tongue - Frater All in the clear Light too for that matter."
Great work with bibliomancy! I love it. I have many very similar results (particular chuckle at "The manifestion of Nuit is at an end," as it is a familiar ending when I use said book). A Google search of the etymology of rampart ended for me in this:
ram·part
Origin
late 16th century: from French rempart, from remparer ‘fortify, take possession of again,’ based on Latin ante ‘before’ + parare ‘prepare.’You can say "prepare before" or (I like the French), "take possession of again." Of course, in this age it is relatively safe to say "you've been here before" and my take on the above answers suggests this. Your highest aspiration is to (begin with, at least) take possession of what you'd held before. From there, "to infinity and beyond!"
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Frater Ramparts would be a hilarious name.
Magick in Theory and Practice is so in-depth. Two things stood out to me:
"It is a hard saying; but in the order to divine without error, one ought to be a Master of the Temple. Divination affords excellent practice for those who aspire to that exalted eminence, for the faintest breath of personal preference will deflect the needle from the pole of truth in the answer. Unless the diviner have banished utterly from his mind the minutest atom of interest in the answer to his question, he is almost certain to influence that answer in favour of his personal inclinations.
The psycho-analyst will recall the fact that dreams are phantasmal representations of the unconscious Will of the sleeper, and that not only are they images of that Will instead of representations of objective truth, but the image itself is confused by a thousand cross-currents set in motion by the various complexes and inhibitions of his character. If therefore one consults the oracle, one must take sure that one is not consciously or unconsciously bringing pressure to bear upon it. It is just as when an Englishman cross-examines a Hindu, the ultimate answer will be what the Hindu imagines will best please the inquirer.
The same difficulty appears in a grosser form when one receives a perfectly true reply, but insists on interpreting it so as to suit one's desires. The vast majority of people who go to "fortunetellers" have nothing else in mind but the wish to obtain supernatural sanction for their follies. Apart from Occultism altogether, every one knows that when people ask for advice, they only want to be told how wise they are. Hardly any one acts on the most obviously commonsense counsel if it happens to clash with his previous intentions. Indeed, who would take counsel unless he were warned by some little whisper in his heart that he was about to make a fool of himself, which he is determined to do, and only wants to be able to blame his best friend, or the oracle, when he is overtaken by the disaster which his own interior mentor foresees? "
This is the issue that I find. I interpret the results however I want to interpret them. Even if I get a response telling me that something bad is going to happen, usually I already knew something bad was going to happen.
Later in the chapter he writes about remaining absolutely indifferent to the results of the divination in order to get a more accurate picture of the answer.
Also interesting was the recommendation not to use divination in matters concerning the Great Work, as to do so is to "insult one's Angel":
" One more observation seems desirable while on this subject. Divination of any kind is improper in matters directly concerning the Great Work itself. In the Knowledge and Conversation of his Holy Guardian Angel, the adept is possessed of all he can possibly need. To consult any other is to insult one's Angel. Moreover, it is to abandon the only person who really knows, and really cares, in favour of one who by the nature of the case, must be ignorant of the essence of the matter --- one whose interest in it is no more (at the best) than that of a well-meaning stranger. It should go without saying that until the Magician has attained to the Knowledge and Conversation of his Holy Guardian Angel he is liable to endless deceptions. He does not know Himself; how can he explain his business to others? How can those others, though they do their best for him, aid in anything but trifles? One must therefore be prepared for disappointment at every stage until one attains to adeptship.
This is especially true of divination, because the essence of the horror of not knowing one's Angel is the utter bewilderment and anguish of the mind, complicated by the persecution of the body, and envenomed by the ache of the soul. One puts the wrong questions, and puts them wrong; gets the wrong answers, judges them wrong, and acts wrongly upon them. One must nevertheless persist, aspiring with ardour towards one's Angel, and comforted by the assurance that He is guiding one secretly towards Himself, and that all one's mistakes are necessary preparations for the appointed hour of meeting Him. Each mistake is the combing-out of some tangle in the hair of the bride as she is being coiffed for marriage.
On the other hand, although the adept is in daily communication with his Angel, he ought to be careful to consult Him only on questions proper to the dignity of the relation. One should not consult one's Angel on too many details, or indeed on any matters which come within the office of one's familiar spirits. One does not go the the King about petty personal trifles. The romance and rapture of the ineffable union which constitutes Adeptship must not be profaned by the introduction of commonplace cares. One must not appear with one's hair in curl-papers, or complain of the cook's impertinence, if one wants to make the most of the honeymoon."
Makes divination seem a lot less useful if the general recommendation is to use it for things that don't matter in the first place.
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@Takamba said
"
Great work with bibliomancy! I love it. I have many very similar results (particular chuckle at "The manifestion of Nuit is at an end," as it is a familiar ending when I use said book). A Google search of the etymology of rampart ended for me in this:ram·part
Origin
late 16th century: from French rempart, from remparer ‘fortify, take possession of again,’ based on Latin ante ‘before’ + parare ‘prepare.’You can say "prepare before" or (I like the French), "take possession of again." Of course, in this age it is relatively safe to say "you've been here before" and my take on the above answers suggests this. Your highest aspiration is to (begin with, at least) take possession of what you'd held before. From there, "to infinity and beyond!""
Thanks a great deal Takamba. Much to ponder!
I've found that there doesn't seem to be a word apart from Remparer that means to recapture AND fortify at once.
Interesting indeed.Cheers for the Bibliomancy anecdote. I got a good chuckle out of it
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I was thinking about this topic again recently, especially on the subject of causality.
So if we are able to make a prediction, it would imply we have some knowledge of causality, that we can tell an effect from its cause, or something along those lines.
But is it possible we can take swap causality for a better word here?
I was reading a book, Parallel Distributed Processing, about machine learning recently. Machines and artificial intelligences, when learning, don’t discern cause from effect. Rather they make associations and strengthen the associations the more they appear together. This idea is also found in the works of David Hume. We can say two phenomena appear together, and we may tend to associate them together, but we cannot say that one phenomenon causes the other.
We don’t know causality; rather we have learned associations.
If we take away the concept of causality, and replace it with associations, we may have a better model to work with, especially as concerns divination.
Lacan has a concept called the suture, which covers up the cut. The cut is the person’s original trauma. The suture, in covering up the cut, basically allows one to discern others’ motives (“because”), but we are basically always projecting here, or in the dark. The suture I have found to be associated with “That’s why” or because. When you reach the point of ultimate causality, that is the suture. But the suture uses heuristics. We’re never really sure of others’ motives or actual causality. We’re generally projecting.
So that’s where divination comes in. We are making divinations, predictions, with our suture. If we kill the “Thats’s why”, though, as in Thelema, we can replace the wall of causality with the machine learning model of associations. If we are good at making predictions, that would imply we have strong associations.
I’m also thinking about why Crowley recommended not making divinations with respect to one’s true will. Maybe if “it must needs be” then you will have to find a way regardless.
But I think divination might be useful in learning about your own suture and associations. It would also probably be useful, especially when you are “wrong” or judge your associations not up to par, to figure out what others’ sutures and associations are like, such that you could get a better understanding of other people.
Replacing causality with associations feels really good, it feels much more love under will.
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I've learned a lot of things in the past few years from divination. Maybe this would be of help to someone else:
-Everything takes longer than you think it will.
-Reading more is always a good thing. Higher information input is better.
-Willpower alone is not enough. Discipline is built up step-by-step and is destroyed easily.
-My immediate intuition is not always a good guide for whether I will get along with someone. A better heuristic I am testing is if the person is a friend of a friend, I will tend to ultimately get along with them.
-I take too long to pivot and get stuck in bad situations for too long.
-Focus/obsession is necessary to drive real results.
-The mind distorts things and blows them out of proportion.
-It's important to start things, however imperfectly, because you'll come back to them and improve. You only make real progress in the returning.
-Having a strong routine makes me happy in the long-term.
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Hey, LD330, glad to see you back!
In briefest, we can say that all the divinatory techniques serve one single purpose: to train the subconsciousness to become more and more open to receive the guidance from Intuition (Neshamah).
It's basically, getting the conscious self of the reason-ego at-bay for a time, keeping the mind silenced, and entering as deep meditational space as you can, and addressing your own H.G.A. with a Question.
Making notes on the process, as well as assessing later on how the events unfolded and what happened, in light of info provided by divination, gives you over time more and more basis for certainty, in interpreting what the guidance-message means. Ideally, one eventually comes to the point of needing no intellectual interpretation, but simply receiving the message immediately, directly, as soon as perception is exposed to the symbol (the divinatory Info).
Over time, this leads to the state of subconsciousness being easily aligned with, and continually open for, receiving guidance directly from Neshamah. -
I see the Tarot as a means of initiating a dialogue with the "Unconcious."
Which is not fooled by "facing things down."
Though you could as easily use pennies (ART)The "science" part comes in doing it over and over and over and over and over via a consistent method, establishing proper communication.