Yoga & the Mystical Experience
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I've read some reports by people who claim to get mystical experiences from yoga practices, especially kundalini yoga. I tried finding instructions to some of these practices online, but most of them offer nothing but general health benefits, not mystical experiences, and I'm getting a bit sick of it. Besides, not a single online source offers a complete daily schedule for those who are interested in the spiritual practice of yoga.
Is there anyone here who can offer a solution? Can someone at least verify the effectivity of yoga in the pursuit of the mystic? If you believe in its effectively, can you suggest me—and, possibly, others who read this—a practical routine of its practice?
Love is the law, love under will.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
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You are using the word yoga the way that most people do, as if a generic term could be specifically understood but in truth it isn't exactly. What yoga are you talking about? Crowley, for instance, teaches Raja Yoga in his section of Liber ABA, Magick, Book Four, entitled "Mysticism."
Raja Yoga is the control of the mind, the will, the focus (and, of course, imagination). With its practice come many mystical experiences.
Hatha Yoga can possibly lead to mystical experiences (if one were mystically inclined to interpret things in the first place), but it's main function is the training of body control. But if you think about it, that's kind of a mystical experience itself.
There are many yogas, and like herbal teas - not all of them have any value beyond entertainment or relaxation.
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@Takamba said
"What yoga are you talking about?"
I did specify a particular type of yoga: kundalini yoga. Any type of yoga would do, though, as long as it gives me the results that I want. All methods are good as long as they bring forth fruits.
@Takamba said
"Crowley, for instance, teaches Raja Yoga in his section of Liber ABA, Magick, Book Four, entitled "Mysticism.""
I'll be sure to check it out. Thanks for the reference, Takamba.
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@Mortimer Lanin said
"I did specify a particular type of yoga: kundalini yoga. Any type of yoga would do, though, as long as it gives me the results that I want. All methods are good as long as they bring forth fruits."
Kundalina Yoga is not a traditional branch of yoga. In fact, it is a relatively modern conception based upon Laya Yoga.
Exercises that will bring about results sightly expanded on from Liber E:
Start with a regular practice of Hatha Yoga, even going to the local gym will suffice. Most neglect this step and go straight into Asana but generally struggle and give up. Do this daily for at least three months and find yourself a position to sit at rest in. Do not skip out on relaxation with Corpse Pose, before and after exercise and the same with meditation.
When you become steady with your posture for a fixed measure of no less than 20 to 30 mins move onto pranayama. Refer to Liber E for practices of Pranayama, and Liber RV for more advanced practice. Good works on the subject are: Light on Pranayama by BKS Iyengar and The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga by Vishnu Devananda. It is best to find a competent instructor to guide you in these practices for various reasons: injuring your lungs, causing blood pressure problems, over excitability etc..
There is really not a "fast track" with Yoga or Magick for that matter. It is basically at lot of time disciplining the body and mind. As far a long with the prescribed method you should be able to start seeing some "results." Beware, that you do not "rush in" to Yogic Practices, I have personally witnessed people injure themselves badly from trying to rush Pranayama. In one instance an individual developed severe asthma, as for myself I have chronic bronchitis from rushing purifying exercises (it is now very uncomfortable for me to even get a "head cold").
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A lot of people want to sell their books and practices. In nearly every facet of the internet...it is mostly for the consumer. People promote yoga as excercise when it isn't. The Goal of yoga is yoga. Period.
I am beginning to realize that all experience is mystical, the mystical is layered into the body of material, phenomenal, noumenal..etc.
Don't look outside for something you can find inside.
Hatha means Sun and Moon and refers to the Nadis which must be unobstructed prior to meditation since congestion will distract you. All the stretches and poses ultimately culminates when both nostrils are open and balanced.A practice I might suggest is a variation on Trataka. Which is having a staring contest with inanimate objects. You keep an absolutely fixed dead stare on something you are indifferent to for as long as you can without moving. Try to beat your record! This "practice" has given me a lot to experience and I think is beneficial for willpower.
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I've found Yoga breathing essential to doing any serious magical work. After learning the basics of Kundalini Yoga my abilities and boundaries quickly expanded beyond what I though possible.
The gist of it involves moving the energy up the ladder of your Chakras. Start at the base and awaken the energy and using breathing and focus direct it up to your 3rd eye or crown.
Bottom line, if you don't know Yoga breathing, you're missing out on one of the most useful tools in magick work. Take the time to learn it, it's not that difficult or involved.
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@Mortimer Lanin said
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Kundalina Yoga is not a traditional branch of yoga. In fact, it is a relatively modern conception based upon Laya Yoga.
"Actually, most branches of Yoga, by way of actual exercises are fairly modern. Patanjali's Yoga Sutras only mentions posture a few times in the text, and then it is only defined as as a sitting posture that is easy and secure—obviously with no other purpose than to allow you to get onto the next steps, observation and control of the mind. Contemporary Hatha Yoga, which is the most common yoga in the states, is only two or three generations old. Except for the neti-pot, the practices in the Yoga Pradipika are not very practical or productive for us westerners. Light on Yoga by BKS Iyengar is not a very expensive book and can usually be purchased at most yoga studios large enough to have purchasable items, like yoga mats and angel cards. I recommend the book!
By all accounts, Kundalini yoga can elicit mystical experiences, or at least some very intense psycho-physical experiences. I had a teacher many years ago who described a premature awakening of her Kundalini. It was a pretty harrowing description.
If you want to practice Kundalini yoga, then more power to you, but I might suggest hunting down a qualified teacher to study under. This really isn't the kind of thing you want to try doing on your own.
Pranayama is not as straight forward as one might hope. Again it is probably a good idea to find someone who knows what they are talking about if you want to do this, though there are variations of it that are based on the duration of inhalations, exhalations, and breath holding in between that you can do on your own if you follow the instructions to the letter. In this regard, I think it can only make sense if you have bigger fish to fry other than simply obtaining interesting experiences. I have yet to see it as a stand alone practice and usually is part of a larger system of training. Another Iyengar book is Light on Pranayama, a bit harder to find but well worth the effort.
The bottom line with most yoga, at least the types I know about, is that it demands devotion and discipline to produce any rewarding experiences. It takes a lot less time to get your dream body (six pack abs, cut thighs, ripped chest, the works), which is why most people practice some derivative of Hatha Yoga in the US. If you are not prepared to spend as long as it takes, and this might mean years, don't waste your time—you don't want to practice not finishing things you've started.
Just out of curiosity, why do you want to do this?
To answer your initial question. Yes, Yoga can produce mystical experiences. It is by definition a system of mystical attainment. But be aware, Yoga is not the only way to do this, there are others systems which purport to produce mystic states.
love and will
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@RobertAllen said
"It takes a lot less time to get your dream body (six pack abs, cut thighs, ripped chest, the works), which is why most people practice some derivative of Hatha Yoga in the US."
No it doesn't. Most people who start working out will gain a few pounds of muscle and that's it. Yes indeed it takes. If you take the correct measures, you will have your "dream body" (which it will not be anymore when you have it!) in a few years, whereas with spiritual development, it ofcourse takes some time.My point is that what you say is true, but not necessarily in the way you think. If you have good genes, you'll have a good body already or within a couple of months or a year of usual stupid training. If not, it takes alot of practice.
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@Vlad said
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@RobertAllen said
"It takes a lot less time to get your dream body (six pack abs, cut thighs, ripped chest, the works), which is why most people practice some derivative of Hatha Yoga in the US."
No it doesn't. Most people who start working out will gain a few pounds of muscle and that's it. Yes indeed it takes. If you take the correct measures, you will have your "dream body" (which it will not be anymore when you have it!) in a few years, whereas with spiritual development, it ofcourse takes some time.My point is that what you say is true, but not necessarily in the way you think. If you have good genes, you'll have a good body already or within a couple of months or a year of usual stupid training. If not, it takes alot of practice."
Oh, I don't know about that. If sweating in the gym for two hours every day is not getting you results, try six hours; you still will be under time if you compare the hours spent by a devoted yogi. And if you are still not getting those buns of steel you crave, well...
(AL, II: 52). There is help and hope in other spells…
Calf implants:
www.locateadoc.com/pictures/cosmetic-surgery/calf-augmentation-implants.htmllove and will
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@RobertAllen said
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Except for the neti-pot, the practices in the Yoga Pradipika are not very practical or productive for us westerners."Do you refer to the Shatkarmas and Khechari Mudra, or also to Asana and Pranayama?
I have the Bihar School of Yoga edition (by Swami Muktibodhananda) and, at least, the earlier exercises seems not to be so complex. I'm wrong? -
@MMe said
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@RobertAllen said
"Except for the neti-pot, the practices in the Yoga Pradipika are not very practical or productive for us westerners."Do you refer to the Shatkarmas and Khechari Mudra, or also to Asana and Pranayama?"
There are just a lot of strange things in the original text that have to do with purging the organism of impurities, at least there is in my version, published by Yoga Vidya. Things like swallowing what amounts to a substantial length of cotton cloth, except for the end which is still sticking out of your mouth. You then pull the entire length of cloth back out with the intention of scrubbing the upper digestive system and the alimentary canal. This seems a bit extreme to me, and most practitioners of yoga in the West tend to avoid it. I don't know about practitioners in India or other parts of the world. The concept is kind of like doing an enema through your mouth. I have forgotten the name of the practice, and I would have to spend a few minutes flipping through the text to find it, which I'm not going to do.
@MMe said
"I have the Bihar School of Yoga edition (by Swami Muktibodhananda) and, at least, the earlier exercises seems not to be so complex. I'm wrong?"
I'm not knocking the book or any of the practices in it, just pointing out what I perceive to be how the text is used, and not used in the West. As I recall, a lot of the practices seem sane, and my experience with them positive, like the net-pot.
I'm also not attempting to set standards for anyone's practice. That's up to the individual.Love and Will
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@RobertAllen said
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@Vlad said
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@RobertAllen said
"It takes a lot less time to get your dream body (six pack abs, cut thighs, ripped chest, the works), which is why most people practice some derivative of Hatha Yoga in the US."
No it doesn't. Most people who start working out will gain a few pounds of muscle and that's it. Yes indeed it takes. If you take the correct measures, you will have your "dream body" (which it will not be anymore when you have it!) in a few years, whereas with spiritual development, it ofcourse takes some time.My point is that what you say is true, but not necessarily in the way you think. If you have good genes, you'll have a good body already or within a couple of months or a year of usual stupid training. If not, it takes alot of practice."
Oh, I don't know about that. If sweating in the gym for two hours every day is not getting you results, try six hours; you still will be under time if you compare the hours spent by a devoted yogi. And if you are still not getting those buns of steel you crave, well...
(AL, II: 52). There is help and hope in other spells…
Calf implants:
www.locateadoc.com/pictures/cosmetic-surgery/calf-augmentation-implants.htmllove and will"
Training takes discipline, and one of the first things is not to overdo it. It takes years to do anything to your body. Steroids don't do anything either, unless you're already 240lbs, and want to still get bigger. Doing anything to your body is 24 h a day work, keeping sure you get the right amount of healthy food, rest, and exercise. You can try and go to the gym for six hours a day, and check out what happens. I'll tell: exactly nothing. Training takes discipline, you have to do every part correctly. If it wasn't hard, just about anyone would have their "dream bodies" (which don't exist, imho). Look at the people in the gym: they, or almost each and everyone of them looks completely normal. Most of them are gaining no fitness and are in fact deteriorating their bodies.Arnold Schwarzenegger is a complete occultist, but what he considered his greatest spiritual work was his career as a bodybuilder. He stopped it because he didn't have anything more to win in there, but in fact because he didn't want to be thought of only as a bodybuilder, because nobody gives a crap about it, and nobody knows anything about it. The celebrities of today use intense amounts of drugs monitored by knowledgeable personal trainers to get where they want to, such that no one can afford. And then the teenagers want to get swole and miss the point. The whole culture of bodybuilding nowadays is about gaining for the first couple of months some good pounds of muscle, and after that just doing bad things to your health, and nothing to your shape.
Training your body is just as spiritual as anything else, and very hard.
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@Vlad said
"Training takes discipline, and one of the first things is not to overdo it. It takes years to do anything to your body. Steroids don't do anything either, unless you're already 240lbs, and want to still get bigger. Doing anything to your body is 24 h a day work, keeping sure you get the right amount of healthy food, rest, and exercise. You can try and go to the gym for six hours a day, and check out what happens. I'll tell: exactly nothing. Training takes discipline, you have to do every part correctly. If it wasn't hard, just about anyone would have their "dream bodies" (which don't exist, imho). Look at the people in the gym: they, or almost each and everyone of them looks completely normal. Most of them are gaining no fitness and are in fact deteriorating their bodies.
Arnold Schwarzenegger is a complete occultist, but what he considered his greatest spiritual work was his career as a bodybuilder. He stopped it because he didn't have anything more to win in there, but in fact because he didn't want to be thought of only as a bodybuilder, because nobody gives a crap about it, and nobody knows anything about it. The celebrities of today use intense amounts of drugs monitored by knowledgeable personal trainers to get where they want to, such that no one can afford. And then the teenagers want to get swole and miss the point. The whole culture of bodybuilding nowadays is about gaining for the first couple of months some good pounds of muscle, and after that just doing bad things to your health, and nothing to your shape.
Training your body is just as spiritual as anything else, and very hard."
Dude! I am like being, facetious.
But no, when you push the point, body building, imo, is not spiritual—the discipline required has spiritual applications, but that's different than having big muscles. Neither are the yoga camps, which is what I was originally thinking about when I made my less than serious jibe at the body beautiful cult, back in the day. Vivekenanda himself pokes fun at the Hatha Yogi. According to him, that kind of yoga is all about living for ever, not about liberation. I tend to agree.
As far as going about getting a beautiful body. I will agree with you that you need to know what you are doing, or cheat. Two years of two to three dance classes a day, five days a week, and one extra class on the sixth day is what it took for me. For proof I've got plenty of pictures to dream over. I keep them for the day when I will need a walker to get that cold can of coors from the fridge.
Love and Will
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Bodybuilding doesn't have anything to do with getting a beautiful body. In its essence, it's like zen archery. The old bodybuilders weren't vainglorious. With that kind of attitude, you won't get anywhere. I don't like the word either; better talk about lifting weights. I stopped young due to depression which I've yet to conquer, and though I've achieved higher states of mind after that by spiritual practice, the discipline you can develop from training is something I haven't developed from anything else.
People are deteriorating nowadays. A cure for that would be for them to sleep, eat less, and train. But of course no one has time to sleep, eat LESS, and train an hour a week.
E. For someone who has alot of experience and knowledge about the sport, i deem "big muscles" as over 230lbs (and that's bare minimum). I'll tell you right away, that just about nobody gains such, and most who gain, do so so rapidly, that it washes away within a year or two, because they don't know anything about bodily, neurological and mental functions. The same may have happened to you physical condition, well I could say that it did.
Yes, I am pressing the point, because I like to. I hope you won't be offended, I am just emotional about those things that I "know" of.
Sorry the OT, I'll stop at this.
Edit. Maybe I should get to an anger management course. I'm just an angry young man who feels he has lost everything for which he has worked so hard.