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Power of a name

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  • F Offline
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    Faust
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    There is a passage from Magick Without tears that I find puzzling, it is from the letter called "Astral Journey, Example. How to do it: How to verify your experiences"

    “Accordingly you begin by asking his name. This is vital; because if he tells you the truth, it gives you power over him. But if, on the other hand, he tells you a lie, he abandons for good and all his fortress. He becomes rather like a submarine whose base has been destroyed. He may do you a lot of mischief in the meantime, of course, so look out!”

    I do get how the wrong name can be a problem to the person scrying, but what does it mean for the spirit? I do not get this analogy with fortress and submarines.

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  • M Offline
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    Mephisto
    replied to Faust on last edited by
    #2

    I think Crowley is making reference, in his glib fashion, to the numeration of the name, as providing the key to the nature of whatever entity.

    That's what I'm getting from this--but your guess is as good as mine. Also, I think what he is saying is if the spirit lies, then the spirit forfeits its magical rights, so to speak. The passage is indeed obscure.

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to Faust on last edited by
    #3

    The name is an expression of the nature of the being. For it to identify with a false formula is for it to be untrue to its actual nature.

    These effects are more immediate in Yetzirah where idea is substance.

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    Faust
    replied to Faust on last edited by
    #4

    @Jim Eshelman said

    "The name is an expression of the nature of the being. For it to identify with a false formula is for it to be untrue to its actual nature.

    These effects are more immediate in Yetzirah where idea is substance."

    And what should be expected from a being that is untrue to its actual nature?

    Some sort of power loss? Self inflicted limitation? Inner conflict? Short circuit?

    Does it also applies to other kinds of lies?

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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to Faust on last edited by
    #5

    @Faus said

    "And what should be expected from a being that is untrue to its actual nature?"

    What would you expect from a human that is untrue to its actual nature?

    Worse yet - the astral being is decomposed (at least in its present formulation; I doubt it's destroyed in any absolute sense). If Rahadetz - an angel of Cancer, whose nature is the formula Resh Heh Daleth Tzaddi, or Sun / Aquarius / Venus / Aries - claimed to be Zachai - an angel of Leo, whose nature is Zayin Cheth A'ayin Yod, or Gemini / Cancer / Capricorn / Virgo - he would disperse himself, because there is very little basis for accurate expression of himself through that formula.

    The pronunciation of the true formula strengthens an astral reality. The pronunciation of a false formula weakens it.

    "Some sort of power loss? Self inflicted limitation? Inner conflict? Short circuit?"

    Yeah. Stuff like that. Usually just a weakening, losing coherence and cohesion, etc.

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    Faust
    replied to Faust on last edited by
    #6

    That is a hell of an interesting answer! Thanks Jim.

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