Replacing/Creating God Names for rituals new and existing
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Hello and 93 all,
So my question is regarding replacing/substituting/creating god names in rituals. I have worked with the LBRP and the Star Ruby in the past and it is in the blending of these together somewhat, that I arrived at this question. Although it is specifically oriented to my desire to change the names for a custom pentagram (elemental) banishing ritual and will thus extend to a change throughout the whole fabric of the ritual (archangels, Quabb cross etc), the principle seems to have more general applications in ritual construction.
The main issues which lead me away from using the original Thelemic God names as in the star ruby and the Hebraic in the LBRP are that the Thelemic God names (especially Nuit and Hadit) are not strongly elemental in nature to my mind, the Hebrew names only hold their correspondence by a rather arbitrary tacking on or significantly convoluted and laboured personal Quabbalistic analysis, and the association of existing pantheons to their relevant cultures and pasts and other associated mental detritus makes them less than clean and ideal for me.
I have come at this from a few different angles but just aren't getting anywhere near to a feasible solution. I understand (or at least think i do) that god names are like a concatenation of ideas, where each letter represents an ingredient that makes up the nature of the god, and have as such attempted the rather large and unwieldy task of linguistic and philogical analysis of alphabets ranging from the runic to the Phoenecian, modern English and back, in order to synthesize letter meanings and attributes across the broad range of related systems. As incredibly interesting and insightful this is in it's own right, I am still without a functional and cohesive system with which I can derive words of power that sing so sweetly and full of the forces I am trying to involve.
So any ideas or help and especially methods or checks to ensure this is done properly and without damaging the rituals effectiveness (or worse) would be immeasurably helpful.
If this is a totally ridiculous undertaking and amounts to something as extravagant as creating my own mythology and allied alphabet that hold as a reflection of divine truths not even comprehensible to me, then let me know and I'll suffer it well in silence.
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I'm missing the specific point, and don't want to make it up out of speculation.
What specifically, concisely, are you asking or saying?
PS - The Divine Names in the LBRP aren't meant to be elemental.
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How might I reliably devise divine names suitable for ritual use without using existing pantheons or the hebrew alphabet?
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@sevenoneves said
"How might I reliably devise divine names suitable for ritual use without using existing pantheons or the hebrew alphabet?"
Ah, I see.
I wouldn't have a frigging clue. You've ruled out everything I was going to mention. My advice was going to be that, first, you have to make authentic, personal connection with some genuine gods that nobody else has ever communicated with or (more or less the same thing, ultimately) you have to be a master qabbalist.
I suspect you don't believe in gods, so "divine names" is a misnomer for you. Perhaps (perhaps?) you simply mean you want to create new intellectually satisfying formulae.
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If I were to take the stance that gods do exist as pure and for lack of a better word “objective” beings, I would see them as very grand and archetypal; partaking of the hierarchical nature suitable to them in the general Quabbalistic scheme: Atziluth. This implies that they are very pure aspects of the one that is none by virtue of being all, and the most primordial expressions of the first fragmentation that is in fact not fragmented at all (if you follow my drift). I then see the names as mere human expressions of these greatest forces, which are called by many names according to the taint of those persons and their respective cultures who managed some form of contact or glimpse of those forces. As such for the purposes of trying to call to aid the most divine and pure force of, lets say the element of fire, to banish all the lower and proceeding varieties of this force, why not try to intellectually design a better dialling system. A mnemonic calling card that opens me more fully and tunes me more precisely as a conduit for that force.
In short, I am not really fixed on the idea as to whether gods do or don't exist, but acting as though they do the above applies and space appears to potentially create more personally harmonious and effective rituals by the use of personally harmonious expressions of the formulae.
An example might be to say that A = atziluth, F=fire, the combination “it” represents an existentialising quality, and “is” kind of activates it further. So then ITAFIS is a potentially suitable name for fire in it's highest aspect and could be used as a divine name? Other options such as a numeric basis similar to the Hebraic system instead, or in combination with the above, where A=1 and 1 corresponds to Kether and so on, are available. Would this kind of thing or something like it work? Is there something I am fundamentally missing/misunderstanding that renders all this a huuge waste of time? -
There are gazillions of names already. That's not enough to work it?
I do think it's a waste of time. I don't think you'd have any more confidence on self-crafted names than you have on traditional names. It's best to use what is already there and is shown to work, and spend the time and mental resources you'd spend on an useless theoretical alternative on things that actually matter instead.
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Before me Paul McCartney, behind me Ringo Star. On my left hand John Lennon and on my right George Harrison. For about me flames the pentagram and within shines the six-rayed star.
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That's the way to invoke star power!
But those are gods long worshipped, and he wants them from no prior pantheon or religion such as, say British Invasionism.
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Touch thy forehead and say ARABICA.
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Draw down to thy groin and say MOCHA.
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To thy right shoulder VE-ESPRESSO.
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To thy left VE-LATTE
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Then clasp thy hands and and say LE-CUP O’ JOE. STEAMIN.
(you may perform this rite with or without cup in hand)
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It's not a matter of just working it that I am tackling here. Full consideration as to why I am desiring not to just use current pantheons would be a long and drawn out discussion which I am interested in pursuing with people at some stage and probably some other thread, but is somewhat beside the main driving issue i would like to handle here.
Reading what you have said Patriel, you are saying that you don't think such a method would work and be effective? This is the primary concern that I have. But from what I understand about the reasons for use of certain god names, the way ritual is constructed and why existing pantheons are placed where they are on the tree of life, it appears that the techniques and lines of reasoning are more or less similar to ones that I am proposing would apply.
To restate my inquiry, is it feasible to do as I have suggested? If so are there any dangers that may arise or certain principles and points that it could be checked against to ensure I am indeed calling up the right force? And does anybody have any suggestions that might help in this task?
*Ritual for the morning grind and summoning of the great lord Espresso. Holding thine implement in hand, sprinkle liberally with powder from the beans of awakening whilst intoning "urrrgurmefer, too early fer mer". Then tamp down with the holy hammer, turning clockwise. Once this is duly accomplished, place implement into the holy hot water dispenser, turning counter clockwise till stable and sealed union takes hold, and perform the alchemical operation that will extract the black dew and create the heavenly morning brew. Add milk and sugar to taste.* -
What is confusing me about this question is your basing it on an idea of "pantheons". The four divine names in the Lesser Pentagram Rituals aren't different gods in a pantheon but, rather, specific magical formulae dependent on the qabalistic interpretation of the Chaldaic letters. They aren't four different gods but four partial expressions of Unity. Searching for other "gods" to fit their role seems to misunderstand their purpose in the ritual and might be why it's causing you difficulty. Just because ADNI and Persephone are both placed in Malkuth does not make them automatically interchangeable.
However... as Jim mentioned above, the Divine Names in the Lesser Pentagram Rituals aren't meant to be elemental in nature and it sounds like you are looking to create a banishing ritual that does hit each element equally(?) so perhaps none of these concerns really apply to what you are doing. But, in that case, I'm confused as to what you're doing and why maintaining the purpose of the Hebrew divine names is important.
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The formulas are expressed and enacted in ritual with the use of a pantheon. These are the forms and cloth draped over the invisible which are most suited and in harmony with it (to use a floral tone of expression). For example the LBRP uses the Hebrew pantheon, and the star ruby uses the Thelemic pantheon. I understand that they are based on different formulas.
The star ruby and even the greater banishing ritual of the pentagram is probably a more apt example of where I am headed in the specific context of the application of god names and the general overarching formula, but the ritual design in general is not what concerns me right now (though perhaps it should). Maybe for the sake of this discussion we can say that I am attempting to reclothe quite drastically the star ruby, and so we need some gods for the elemental quadrants but we cannot use any that already exist. Now the questions in my posts above have a context to view them within which I hope makes more sense of them. At the same time the implications and applications appear quite general and far reaching.
It's the way god names work in general - Hebrew using as you say the quabbalistic interpretations of the individual letters and their respective correspondences as a method of dialling in to their force which is an expression of unity - and it is methods and means like this that are the focus of my exploration and questions.
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Well, my confusion has lessened slightly but, unfortunately, not in a way that's going to allow me to offer much assistance. What I think it boils down to is that you see the god names of the Pentagram Rituals and the Star Ruby to be equivalent whereas I see them to be of a completely different nature. It is that difference (in part) that relegates SR to be exclusively for banishing whereas Crowley says of the LPRs:
"Those who regard this ritual as a mere device to invoke or banish spirits, are unworthy to possess it. Properly understood, it is the Medicine of Metals and the Stone of the Wise."
What it sounds like you're trying to do is to create a new, personal ritual on the skeleton of the SR, just as Crowley built the SR on the skeleton of the LPRs. It sounds like you are attempting to create a definite elemental attribution in each quarter during the deity-name portion of the ritual because you don't think the current versions do it effectively enough (this isn't surprising in at least the LPRs since that isn't the intention of the deity-name portion and is only the first layer of the intention of the Archangel portion). You want to use names that are definitely elemental but which have no prior religious baggage.
If all of the above suppositions are correct, the best advice I can think of is to follow the lead of James Joyce and create portmanteau words that unite two or three elemental ideas into a single word that has a rhythm akin to the elemental nature of the quarter. If you are familiar with the Latin Simplex or a workable English gematria, perhaps you can then tailor your creations to have some level of qabalistic resonance.
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I don't see the SR and LBRP as equivalent. Similar in some parts, but I am not attempting to directly equate the two. I understand that they are built from two different formulas and as such the series of god names - especially the series of god names - serve different purposes. I understand that there has been a lot of confusion regarding the series of divine names in the LRP, I was greatly thrown about and perplexed by this, as well as the whole going clockwise for an apparent banishing ritual and am totally indebted to this forum for clearing up the confusion there.
Relating to what you've said in the second paragraph about designing a custom banishing ritual based more or less on the star ruby, you are bang on there. That is the specific application that is driving this on at the moment, but it's the general principle of finding a process for the creation of divine names that can work in varying ritual design or customisation circumstances that is at the heart of the query.
I haven't heard of the method you mentioned by James Joyce or the Latin simplex gematria. They sound like excellent leads that I will have to look into, thanks for pointing me in their direction. I'll report back on what I find there.As for finding a harmonious and effective way to quabbalise and numericise the english alphabet this is really a kind of holy grail to pull off and get right. I think either way it is desirable that the system be simple, effective and does not have a massively convoluted basis from which meaning and representations can be derived, or from which the attributions are developed.
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@sevenoneves said
"Reading what you have said Patriel, you are saying that you don't think such a method would work and be effective?"
Not nearly as effective as traditional divine names, no.
"To restate my inquiry, is it feasible to do as I have suggested? If so are there any dangers that may arise or certain principles and points that it could be checked against to ensure I am indeed calling up the right force?"
See, that's the point. You already have the guarantee that you're calling the right force by using an well established divine name. Now, I don't think you'd expose yourself to much danger by using self-crafted names, but it would be at least a partial waste of time and effort.
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If the name or divine formula is an expression of a “state of Being” (to use Guenon’s choice of words), first thing to do is to attain that state before formulating the word. Something like these can be seen in the works of shamanism, where most ritual formulas, spirits and gods are learned in trance state.
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I'll be okay with it if my explorations at the worst result in some wasted time and effort Patriel. I'm aware of this risk and it is a concern, so hearing from people like yourself that they believe wasted T&E is all i'll get based on their experiences is helpful and appreciated feedback. The potential to create a more personally effective and harmonious ritual is worth such an exchange at this stage though. Plus there are many side benefits in the deepening of my understanding of other things and the generally stimulating intellectual side of it. (though gods know this is perhaps a rather disproportionate aspect of many magicians)
Faust, if I could astral project to help me in this I most certainly would. Unfortunately I can't, though this is a primary spiritual goal I am currently working towards. Part of the reason for creating this thread is in the hope that those with such abilities and greater understanding of spiritual and Magickal principles can aid what I am attempting and/or warn me of any potential pitfalls I may be unaware of.
Portmanteau may have some viability that i intend to experiment with (now that I know what it is). If this can be combined with some sort of numerical symbolism, either with syllables or the number of letters used in the portmanteau, this will provide two rules to work from and perhaps build further upon. While I'm at it I might trawl through forum topics on English quabbalah and letter correspondences for useful information.
More ideas and angles to take are very welcome. Also more cautions and opinions on the matter. And thanks all for the input already put forward.
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FWIW, do you intend to use the English alphabet for this?
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More than likely. But not necessarily. I have a thing for Phoenician but that may turn out to be another matter, and tends to land back at Hebrew (and the other way around).
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Well, in any case, the Hebrew attributions and sounds are probably the best basis.