Replacing/Creating God Names for rituals new and existing
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What is confusing me about this question is your basing it on an idea of "pantheons". The four divine names in the Lesser Pentagram Rituals aren't different gods in a pantheon but, rather, specific magical formulae dependent on the qabalistic interpretation of the Chaldaic letters. They aren't four different gods but four partial expressions of Unity. Searching for other "gods" to fit their role seems to misunderstand their purpose in the ritual and might be why it's causing you difficulty. Just because ADNI and Persephone are both placed in Malkuth does not make them automatically interchangeable.
However... as Jim mentioned above, the Divine Names in the Lesser Pentagram Rituals aren't meant to be elemental in nature and it sounds like you are looking to create a banishing ritual that does hit each element equally(?) so perhaps none of these concerns really apply to what you are doing. But, in that case, I'm confused as to what you're doing and why maintaining the purpose of the Hebrew divine names is important.
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The formulas are expressed and enacted in ritual with the use of a pantheon. These are the forms and cloth draped over the invisible which are most suited and in harmony with it (to use a floral tone of expression). For example the LBRP uses the Hebrew pantheon, and the star ruby uses the Thelemic pantheon. I understand that they are based on different formulas.
The star ruby and even the greater banishing ritual of the pentagram is probably a more apt example of where I am headed in the specific context of the application of god names and the general overarching formula, but the ritual design in general is not what concerns me right now (though perhaps it should). Maybe for the sake of this discussion we can say that I am attempting to reclothe quite drastically the star ruby, and so we need some gods for the elemental quadrants but we cannot use any that already exist. Now the questions in my posts above have a context to view them within which I hope makes more sense of them. At the same time the implications and applications appear quite general and far reaching.
It's the way god names work in general - Hebrew using as you say the quabbalistic interpretations of the individual letters and their respective correspondences as a method of dialling in to their force which is an expression of unity - and it is methods and means like this that are the focus of my exploration and questions.
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Well, my confusion has lessened slightly but, unfortunately, not in a way that's going to allow me to offer much assistance. What I think it boils down to is that you see the god names of the Pentagram Rituals and the Star Ruby to be equivalent whereas I see them to be of a completely different nature. It is that difference (in part) that relegates SR to be exclusively for banishing whereas Crowley says of the LPRs:
"Those who regard this ritual as a mere device to invoke or banish spirits, are unworthy to possess it. Properly understood, it is the Medicine of Metals and the Stone of the Wise."
What it sounds like you're trying to do is to create a new, personal ritual on the skeleton of the SR, just as Crowley built the SR on the skeleton of the LPRs. It sounds like you are attempting to create a definite elemental attribution in each quarter during the deity-name portion of the ritual because you don't think the current versions do it effectively enough (this isn't surprising in at least the LPRs since that isn't the intention of the deity-name portion and is only the first layer of the intention of the Archangel portion). You want to use names that are definitely elemental but which have no prior religious baggage.
If all of the above suppositions are correct, the best advice I can think of is to follow the lead of James Joyce and create portmanteau words that unite two or three elemental ideas into a single word that has a rhythm akin to the elemental nature of the quarter. If you are familiar with the Latin Simplex or a workable English gematria, perhaps you can then tailor your creations to have some level of qabalistic resonance.
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I don't see the SR and LBRP as equivalent. Similar in some parts, but I am not attempting to directly equate the two. I understand that they are built from two different formulas and as such the series of god names - especially the series of god names - serve different purposes. I understand that there has been a lot of confusion regarding the series of divine names in the LRP, I was greatly thrown about and perplexed by this, as well as the whole going clockwise for an apparent banishing ritual and am totally indebted to this forum for clearing up the confusion there.
Relating to what you've said in the second paragraph about designing a custom banishing ritual based more or less on the star ruby, you are bang on there. That is the specific application that is driving this on at the moment, but it's the general principle of finding a process for the creation of divine names that can work in varying ritual design or customisation circumstances that is at the heart of the query.
I haven't heard of the method you mentioned by James Joyce or the Latin simplex gematria. They sound like excellent leads that I will have to look into, thanks for pointing me in their direction. I'll report back on what I find there.As for finding a harmonious and effective way to quabbalise and numericise the english alphabet this is really a kind of holy grail to pull off and get right. I think either way it is desirable that the system be simple, effective and does not have a massively convoluted basis from which meaning and representations can be derived, or from which the attributions are developed.
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@sevenoneves said
"Reading what you have said Patriel, you are saying that you don't think such a method would work and be effective?"
Not nearly as effective as traditional divine names, no.
"To restate my inquiry, is it feasible to do as I have suggested? If so are there any dangers that may arise or certain principles and points that it could be checked against to ensure I am indeed calling up the right force?"
See, that's the point. You already have the guarantee that you're calling the right force by using an well established divine name. Now, I don't think you'd expose yourself to much danger by using self-crafted names, but it would be at least a partial waste of time and effort.
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If the name or divine formula is an expression of a “state of Being” (to use Guenon’s choice of words), first thing to do is to attain that state before formulating the word. Something like these can be seen in the works of shamanism, where most ritual formulas, spirits and gods are learned in trance state.
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I'll be okay with it if my explorations at the worst result in some wasted time and effort Patriel. I'm aware of this risk and it is a concern, so hearing from people like yourself that they believe wasted T&E is all i'll get based on their experiences is helpful and appreciated feedback. The potential to create a more personally effective and harmonious ritual is worth such an exchange at this stage though. Plus there are many side benefits in the deepening of my understanding of other things and the generally stimulating intellectual side of it. (though gods know this is perhaps a rather disproportionate aspect of many magicians)
Faust, if I could astral project to help me in this I most certainly would. Unfortunately I can't, though this is a primary spiritual goal I am currently working towards. Part of the reason for creating this thread is in the hope that those with such abilities and greater understanding of spiritual and Magickal principles can aid what I am attempting and/or warn me of any potential pitfalls I may be unaware of.
Portmanteau may have some viability that i intend to experiment with (now that I know what it is). If this can be combined with some sort of numerical symbolism, either with syllables or the number of letters used in the portmanteau, this will provide two rules to work from and perhaps build further upon. While I'm at it I might trawl through forum topics on English quabbalah and letter correspondences for useful information.
More ideas and angles to take are very welcome. Also more cautions and opinions on the matter. And thanks all for the input already put forward.
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FWIW, do you intend to use the English alphabet for this?
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More than likely. But not necessarily. I have a thing for Phoenician but that may turn out to be another matter, and tends to land back at Hebrew (and the other way around).
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Well, in any case, the Hebrew attributions and sounds are probably the best basis.
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Is the suggestion then that even if I do create new names, that I use the hebrew letters and their correspondences as the basis to build these from? If this is the case I would be slightly concerned about creating confusion or subtle kinds of short circuits due to their heavy traditional use. That being said it would be very interesting to see how close my results might parallel the existing names used for the same purposes, if any. In fact this is so interesting and potentially revealing that I will have a crack at it just to see what comes out.
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With what you are undertaking and the goals you have set for this, no, I wouldn't recommend you do that. (I wouldn't chase you away from it, but I certainly wouldn't try to chase you toward it.)
I do think that the Hebrew alphabet is the fundamental universal code hard wired into human cells, and the classic Names (of all categories) are hard-wired formulae that produce specific results by unlocking various changes. However, you specifically aren't pursuing that. You're goal appears to be, first, to stretch your arms and give it the old school try yourself (I utterly understand!), and, particularly, to create an intellect-level code consistent with the distinctive pattern of your intellect at the present time with the hope that you can trigger certain idea streams with it - or something like that.
So I certainly wouldn't go out of the way to drive you toward the Hebrew for this particular project.
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Thanks for the advice Jim. I had a quick stab at it but didn't get too far, and certainly feel it is better left as the refined and worked out (more or less) system it already is. I've read your idea regarding the cell level hard wiring of Hebrew letter sounds somewhere else on the forum. Quite a proposition. With rather massive implications.
You are right on the money with regards to what I'm attempting. On that note, it seems the greatest difficulty I'm experiencing is in signifying highest divinity. There are a few interesting options open for encoding the elements in this particular case, but to also signify essentially "The highest divine ineffable ruler" of such, is not so satisfactorily forthcoming.
I will post some of the ideas I have developed so far once they settle a little more into place. Attempting to type it all out into a post has raised some possibilities that could do with a nights rest and further thought. -
@sevenoneves said
"Is the suggestion then that even if I do create new names, that I use the hebrew letters and their correspondences as the basis to build these from?"
It's a thought. But not the letters themselves.
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So for what I'm currently engaged in for creating elemental divine names: First I wrote out the elements in english, then removed letters common to all of them.
This gives F = fire, W = water, and H = earth. Air, interestingly enough has no letter of it's own. Also when compared to german it is the only element word that is drastically different from it's english counterpart, being "luft". I'm still considering ways to remedy this besides using the letter A because I feel if I use one vowel then I may as well use them all as there are, conveniently, five of them. For spirit R seems appropriate as it is the one letter contained in all of them.Now, for the case of using the vowels. If you amplify the harmonics of your voice starting from the lowest, essentially trying to isolate the Fundamental frequency of the note, and then progress upwards from there to higher and higher harmonics, the sequence I arrived at is UOAEI. What strikes me about this as a side note is that if you go in reverse it sounds like a very sonorous and smouth intonation of IAO. Consider the E transitory between I and A, and the U as simply a double O and that's exactly what you get. Anyway, whether to consider the higher harmonics to be related to fire, and then progress down to the lower and hit earth, or to start from the fundamental and go the other way round has two considerable points swaying me on either side.
The first is the principle seen in cymatics. If you don't know what this is I strongly suggest looking it up as you wont be disappointed. This suggests starting the progression towards manifestation from the lower frequencies (U=fire) as cymatic patterns increase in complexity as you go higher in pitch and this mirrors nicely the progression of division and greater complexity as you move towards concrete manifestation. I should mention that these considerations hinge upon the formula of YHVH in it's elemental sense and progression. The second goes the opposite way based upon the notion that earth is slower and heavy (more inertial) and so the lower frequency fits in well there. Also higher frequencies tend to be associated with higher states of energy. "A" sticks out in this scheme (whichever direction you take it from) as being best associated with spirit as it is most open and contains the fundamental and all of the harmonics fairly evenly represented; moreso than the others which begin to filter either the lower or higher harmonics as you move towards them from the open mouth, flat tongued A.
This vowel system being so closely tied to YHVH and the four worlds formula has raised consideration for using it as a means to denote what level of being is called upon; opening up possibilities for signifying whether something is a god, archangel, angel or elemental. This option needs further consideration and to be weighed against the vowels as being more suited to such a purpose or as elemental signifiers.