thelema & christianity
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Thanks. Interestingly, I hadn't read Liber Amoris in a while and printed out a copy to take around with me today on the bus.
Yes, "Daughter of the Lantern" is mine, too. (I think the Table of Contents says that, doesn't it?)
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THELEMA
thats cool about the printing the poem today and showing it to people!
yes looking in the front it does say you wrote it, and that is may favorite poem!
AGAPE
Fr.418
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Well, I wasn't printing it to show people - not the way I do things
- I printed it just to take it with me and have the chance to read it for the first time in several years. -
yeah i was going to say that would be a little strange, showing that poem to random stranger. but hey i am not one to judge.
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G., I was thinking this morning that I should have mentioned - for your entertainment and enjoyment - some of the patterns in these poems.
In Amoris vel Calicis, I'm guessing you discerned the pattern in the verses numbered 1-22 - but can you tell what the pattern is for the first three verses? These are written based on a very exact qabalistic pattern (no, it has nothing to do per se with the 3 Veils), and was in fact the pattern that I used to jumpstart receiving the others, and their inspiration. That is, there is a qabalistic formula in these three verses which was inspiration of all the rest of it, and which gave me an exact approach to the rest flowing in. Can you discern it?
Second - this one is more obvious, at least once you know it - Is it clear what Locked in Love is (besides a devotional love poem)? I'll give this one away, because that opens the way to learning more things: It is a versification of the Pentagram Ritual (excluding the Qabalistic Cross).
Several of the others follow Qabalistic formulae, though usually private patterns. That is, the verses are usually inspired by Hebrew or Greek letters from some formula I was working at the time. One pretty obvious example is Thalia, named after one of the Muses, where the verses are the first two letters of her name - Theta (=Teth) and Alpha (=Aleph). I originally thought I'd go through the other letters, too, but at the end of the second verse it was done. Also, the Invocation of Israfel is a letter-by-letter working of the spelling of Israfel's name (rendered in Hebrew, though the actual name is Arabic).
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THELEMA
On the meaning of the 1st 3 verses (000-0) of your poem, i would guess it it:
000: this is nuit i would say, which is of course the all, and female. the star.
00:this would be the force of hadit, penetrating nuit, and the human uniting with her (or with the HGA) (the devil)
0.in a sexual sense i would say this would be baphomet, you know male and female force combined to create baphomet. (the fool)but from more a technical "AA" standpoint i would say its more
000=yesod- where you are looking up at your HGA with out the moon in its way, also yesod=chalice
00=samekh, traveling up that path to tiphareth, where you acheieve K&C w/ HGA
0=is you and your HGA working on your relationship, love i think in geburah, the portal to binah. or maybe this is zain as being the portal instead of geburah to binah?
but if i was a betting man i wouldnt bet money i was right. am i amy where close.
thats very cool that you put alot of qabalic thougt into your poems. i really like how that poem was written in like class A form, never thought of doing something like that.
since we are talking about qabalah like influenced poetry i will show you a poem i think is a little better than the last one i posted that has some qabalah into it. hope you dont mind.
LLLL
god guide me through the most sightless night,
giving me liberty, love, life & light,
the source of the eternal whirling fire,
enlightenment of man's desire,
this is the law of all free men,
they have abolished that which is sin.one must first discover inner liberty,
this is the 1st step to set yourself free,
submitting yourself to self restriction,
the holy knight is ruled by disiplene,
forming his mind & body into his slave,
until his true will is all thats saved.through liberty god's love comes pouring in,
devouring the knights soul in the joy of sin,
he learns that love is just as the weather,
changing from wet to dry unveiling gods treasure,
giving & receiving just as our beloved Nuit,
taking ecstacy& agony as all is sweet.the holy knight then devotes his life unto god,
giving every moment to the splendour of hod,
thru love he unites to create life in union,
conjoining as beast & babalon in reunion,
filling the ark of life with his internal light,
making himself the most holy eternal knight.only then does he understand love under will,
thru the creation of the holy elixar etheral,
this light is as bright as a moon & star-less nihgt sky,
and as the intense silence of a dead man's cry,
this light so bright it shall be called the nothing,
burning in our knights heart it ecomes all consuming.burning out every bit of himself called I,
leaving only in its place the force Coph Nia,
sitting in content no longer a knight,
but now in his place the illustrious lord
living in unity by the 2-edged sword,
he is no longer a star but the bright light,
that is known as dark night by those without sight.AGAPE
Fr.418
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The first three verses each relates to a Hebrew letter. The letters then spell something. What is it?
(I'll come back tomorrow when I'm more awake to read your poem - and give itdue attention.)
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thelema
000= heh
00= ayin
0= alephbut ot me EOA isnt really cool and 000 acually sounds like yod also now so i would say IOA which is IAO
and is cool cause yod is sperm, ayin is the hole the sperm shoots out and A is baphomet, and in the devil card you can see the little baphomet on his way out. or course IAO is also the union of male and female creating the baphomet.
- Behold the Grail, uplifted in the heart of She who is He that I adore. It is an offering of perfect love. All that is pure, amethestine splendor asparkle, refracting the fluid and liquid dance of Her kiss that sips the nectar-blood of my soul.
and the yod adores the grail, and her liquid consumes yod.
i am i right?
thanks that was fun.
AGAPE
FR.418
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Look again at the visual imagery in the second verse in particular.
The first one isn't a bad guess, but is wrong.
The qabalistic clues in the third verse are almost every word, and all point in one direction.
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THELEMA
well 000 could be i think either Ch or yod or Heh
00 either samekh or ayin
0 probably aleph if not dalethso ISA or ChSD or HAD
i dont know what is it?
AGAPE
Fr.418
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Cheth Samekh Daleth - Chesed.
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Great stuff Jim,
Can you give me any Qabalahistic viewpoints on Adam Kadmon?
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@DJHOHL said
"Can you give me any Qabalahistic viewpoints on Adam Kadmon?"
I've been long taken with the fact that qadmon - QDMVN - enumerates to 200, Resh. Therefore, Adam Qadmon is "solar humanity." This is at least a good mnemonic, since Adam Qadmon is the Tipheric universal human ideal.
Did you have a more specific question on this?
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To quote Robert Ambelain:
Man is composed of
Neschamah (Divine Spark) SHIN
Ruach (Mediator) ALEPH
Nephesch (Form) MEMMan was emanated as Neschmah (Adam Kadmon).
Genesis says that "male and female created him" The divine spark was polarized and there was a neschamah male and female. So we see that Adam Kadomn has the association Chokmah-Binah.Do you agree with any of this?
Also, I'd like to hear any info on the interplay between Adam Kadmon vs. Adam, and between EVE & ADAM. What does the Kabbalah tell us of their relationships and states to one another?
Thanks!
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@DJHOHL said
"Do you agree with any of this?"
I agree with the composition of Neshamah, Ruach, Nephesh - and the attribution of the three Mother Letters is traditional, and perfectly good symbolism. (The translation is a bit whacked, but it communicates well enough.)
No, I wouldn't represent the emanation that way. This may be a semantics issue, though. By "human" (what is apparently meant by "man" here) I mean the animal that has evolved up to the more sophisticated animal, and happens to be the housing of a particular Star at present. So I don't start talking about it as originating in Neshemah. On the other hand, the Star itself - the incarnated spiritual being - is Neshamic inherently.
"male and female created him" - The ideal (primarily as evolved from Greek thought) is always the apex of a triangle, the transcendant synthesis of a polarity, so in that sense it is so. But this is only one particular polarity. You could model it in any of several ways, of course, and the above sounds very gnostic-kabbalistic, something of the flavor of the 13th Century Spanish kabbalists, though I don't recognize the particular source.
The key thing to remember about Adam Qadmon, though, is that it is the collective of humanity - not a particular or individual human at all, except to the extent that the individual is identified with the Human Archetypal Ideal of the whole of humanity in Tiphereth.
"Also, I'd like to hear any info on the interplay between Adam Kadmon vs. Adam, and between EVE & ADAM. What does the Kabbalah tell us of their relationships and states to one another?"
To the extent that Adam doesn't mean a particular person - i.e., to the extent that it is understood simply as the word for "humanity" - it is still "typical" (non-ideal, non-archetypal) humanity. Adam Qadmon, the Primal Humanity, is the transcendant ideal behind the iindivuals.
I would have to go to an hour or so of research to know if anything I've written here matches source literature - but what you asked is whether I agreed with it, so that's what I answered <vbg>.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You could model it in any of several ways, of course, and the above sounds very gnostic-kabbalistic, something of the flavor of the 13th Century Spanish kabbalists, though I don't recognize the particular source.
."Interesting that you say this because Ambelain was a member of the Elus-Cohen which was originally founded by Martinez de Pasqually. " Born in Grenoble, of Spanish descent, Martines Pasquales received his authority to transmit the ancient teachings from his father, who was granted a Masonic charter from Charles Stuart, "King of Scotland, Ireland, and England," dated May, 20, 1738." It is thought that Pasqually's family in Spain had access to 13th century Kabbalah documents that were taken during the inquisition.
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Impressive sourcing.
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Revelations! I keep searching for references on gematria of Revelations, but my searches never turn up much of interest, really. Yes, there are the curious numbers 666 and 144,000, but I'd also like to understand more about the actual "armageddon" scenerio.
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Proverbs is an excellent place to start for hermetic thought in the bible. Song of Solomon/Canticles as also excellent, but hard to understand. All of the ancient mediterrenian religions have tremendous cross-over, and many of them even shared scripture (the book of enoch, and a lot of what was attributed to Hermes Trismagistus, for example, were studied by both christers and jews).
The first five books of the old testament can be traced back to Assyrian and Babalonian religion, while the Psalms were origionaly written inside the tombs of KMT. Some of the Psalms (alternate translations, but definitely the same chapters in Psalms) were even found in Tibetan Lamasaries!
Thelema is actualy a first cousin of Christianity (the origional Thelema was Threskia, a Greek mystery religion), so I wouldn't worry about sucking their scriptures dry for any enlightening info you can get from them! In fact, don't stop there! Raid the holy writ of the Hindu, and Taoist as well! Don't let other peoples biases (or even your own!) hold you back! Such is the illusion of duality (all religions are in fact ONE). Sin = Restriction!
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I don't like to bring this up, but it does seem like a lot of the "Biblical prophecies," as related to me by my mother, are coming true:
Global Warming: Be Worried. Be Very Worried
www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101060403,00.htmlYes, the Bible apparently predicts all sorts of natural disasters just prior to Armageddon.
The way the economy seems to be going, I shall wait for the day when a day's wages can barely buy me a loaf of bread... if that time ever comes, what will you all be thinking? (edit: this day is already here in many places, but not globally).
Related thoughts: Horus is the template on which Christ was built, yes? So, could Armageddon and the coming of the Aeon of Horus be one and the same? (Forgive my ignorance, I don't know much about Horus and am only beginning to really learn as of last Saturday due to some insights I recently had).
Bringing this thread back to Qabalah: Any "end times" stuff jump out at any Bible-reading Thelemites who might have some experience cross-referencing with Egyptian texts or Liber Al Vel Legis?