the path to knowledge & conversation

[redd fezz]

So, in your opinion, the original Abramelin Operation operating instructions and the newer Newcomb instructions aren't accurate? What I mean is, if one's life affords him time to spend on the operation, why shouldn't he succeed within 6 months (if not sooner, as Newcomb states) unless he runs into the obvious lack of willpower or other life difficulties? Having read Newcomb's timeline/breakdown, I must say, it doesn't seem that it would be quite that difficult if you knew it was going to take 6 months or less. Honestly, it sounds sort of enjoyable to me; continually adding psychological pressure of yearning. At the most, you're talking 4 hours a day.

@Edward Mason said

"The HGA is not going to turn out to be something separate from all we've experienced, but something essentially present in that set of experiences. Only when we are fully aware of how we came to where we are now, can we, in my judgement, expect to commence the 'final run-up' to the K&C. At that point, the method will be indicated, we are told, by the Angel Itself.
"

Will Parfitt gives extremely simple advice on how to communicate with it. Jason Newcomb recommends a super-simple book that he considers an easy method that does not offer the full K&C, but opens the path to communication safe and easy (can't remember the name of it, though). There are lots of techniques and ideas relating to K&C, even a few Chaos techniques. I haven't spent any time on any of these techniques yet and so was just curious if Liber Samekh is somehow supposed to be more direct or "better" than other methods. Having read it a few times, it does not resonate with me, which is probably a bad start.

[Jim Eshelman]

@Redd Fezz said

"Will Parfitt gives extremely simple advice on how to communicate with it. Jason Newcomb recommends a super-simple book that he considers an easy method that does not offer the full K&C, but opens the path to communication safe and easy (can't remember the name of it, though)."

"Communication with it" shouldn't be at all confused with the K&C. In A.'.A.'. terms, "communication with it" comes essentially from the beginning - certainly by the time one is settling into 1=10 - but that experience isn't at all the same as the K&C.

As far as accelerated programs, the A.'.A.'.'s own instruction - the formal self-initiation into 5=6 Within, Liber VIII - is exactly that, a quintessentializing of the Abramelin process. ordoaa.org/liber8.htm - Liber Samekh definitely stirs and accelerates (we tend especially to recommend it for 2=9 or, in fact, for anyone who believes they are ready), but readiness still plays into it.

[redd fezz]

Thanks, Jim!

This leads me to a follow-up question, which I fear is REALLY going to sound stupid because it even goes against my common sense... Does a person NEED to understand and be familiar with all the ideas in Thelemic rituals or does understanding tend to come with practice? I ask because people always tell me to stop studying and practice more (meanwhile, I generally feel these people should practice less and study more FIRST ) and, when I flip through DuQuette's "The Magick of Aleister Crowley," I am struck with the obvious: the book is presented like this: 1. Here's a little bit about the man, 2. Here's the Book of The Law, 3. Here are the rituals. Go at it. Rodney Orpheus' book is similarly simplistic. Crowley's writings themselves always make me feel like I need to read everything he's written several times before even attempting.

[Jim Eshelman]

There's a balance between the extremes. I definitely side with a bit of study first. But no, you don't have to understand a ritual thoroughly before doing it. Most of the time, you don't stand a chance of understanding it until after a stretch of repeatedly performing it.

[gerry456]

The K&C of our HGA.s ; the inner genius for 418. The Master Therion worked on a system of such attainment for humanity. What about those who are possessed of genius (and benefitting all thereby; e.g. Tesla and the many inventors and innovators of technology/new scientific theory who have lessened human suffering and discomfort) without any magical training or even interest? Are they already somehow doing their True Will?

[Chris Hanlon]

Everybody is doing his/her true will. They just don't know it.
In L.V.X.,
One who doesn't know, either.
chrys333

[Edward Mason]

93,

I agree with Chris - everyone is doing their TW to a greater or lesser extent. But some of us are enacting the shadow aspects more, with a lot of egoic limitations and barriers. The extreme example would be a dictator of a Third World country who really wants to make things better, at least at first, but can't address his unresolved anxieties, and so projects them onto his opponents, other countries, or the World Bank.

Some people just do really clever stuff, and impress others. Nothing wrong with that, except it can be narrow. Others (Newton and Einstein come to mind) have deep curiosity about the universe as a whole, and speculate on the greater truths.

I see the aim in Thelema as an increase in consciousness. The more I know about the agglomeration of things conventionally called 'Edward', the more I can uncover my TW and express it. Once that expression is pure enough (19 lifetimes should do nicely...) I am ready to move past the egoic performance of it, and let the HGA in to really take over.

Conversely, I imagine anyone who has had the K&C is able to better express his or her TW, because there is more confidence or faith in what they're doing at the times they're not exactly sure what they are doing. It's more of a pure impulse than a decision.

93 93/93,

Edward

[gerry456]

@bethata418 said

"THELEMA

i have read somewhere (though i now forget where LOL) about the student seeing a vision of his HGA sometime before acually attaining K & C w/ HGA. from what i read crowley experienced this when he received liber AL, yet it wasnt for like another 4 year till he attained K & C w/ HGA.

i was wondering is this in all cases the student sees the HGA before K&C w/ HGA?

==========
this reminds me about my reading of the first meeting of L Ron Hubbard and JW Parsons. The latter was impressed with Hubbards' assertions that he had seen his own HGA many a time.

[Edward Mason]

Gerry, 93,

First, define 'see'.

Would that be a vision, perceived as within or without, of a golden/white/violet/nice shade of green, winged being? Or of a transcendent brilliance? Would it be a preception of the wonder and beauty of the world? Would it be a clear understanding that we are part of what we call the HGA? All these could be aspects of it.

It's possible that all along the way, we see the HGA in one way or another. But perhaps only after K&C, or at least a close approach to it, might we realise <i>what</i> we've been seeing.

93 93/93,

Edward

[bethata418]

you know somewhere around here there is like a thread with a bunch of comments about this, i think its called the vision of the HGA, idk.. but there is alot of great comments on it, by everyone as well as jim!

93s

[Jim Eshelman]

Perhaps this?
www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?p=1110

(Found by clicking Search above and using the Google window to search for "Vision of Adonai".)