Are there Satanic Thelemites.Satanist are bashing thelemites
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It has, among others, all three (actually, two) of these.
About left-hand-path "thelemites": I think that the Book of the Law is pretty clear about this (personal oppinion):
"I22.
Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.
"Isn't this instruction clearly contrary to the objectives of the LHP???
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@YHVH said
"About left-hand-path "thelemites": I think that the Book of the Law is pretty clear about this (personal oppinion):
"I22.
Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.
"Isn't this instruction clearly contrary to the objectives of the LHP???"
It's certainly contrary to the situation with Black Brothers but thats not related to left hands or right hands.
My understanding is that the Black Brothers are those who have turned back at the point of crossing the Abyss, and it makes no difference how you got there, LHP or RHP or you take the high road and I'll take the low road. 
I've seen a lot of debates raging about how you should define the LHP and RHP, most sensible suggestions for those who need such definitions suggest the LHP is all about tantric practices and quaffing down gallons of bodily fluids.
At the end of the day though I think all these definitions are subjective and limiting. If you want to play the guitar properly you need to use both hands!
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"I've seen a lot of debates raging about how you should define the LHP and RHP, most sensible suggestions for those who need such definitions suggest the LHP is all about tantric practices and quaffing down gallons of bodily fluids.
"When I said LHP, I meant being a Black Brother. Seems non-thelemic by definition.
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@nashimiron said
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@YHVH said
"About left-hand-path "thelemites": I think that the Book of the Law is pretty clear about this (personal oppinion):"I22.
Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.
"Isn't this instruction clearly contrary to the objectives of the LHP???"
It's certainly contrary to the situation with Black Brothers but thats not related to left hands or right hands.
My understanding is that the Black Brothers are those who have turned back at the point of crossing the Abyss, and it makes no difference how you got there, LHP or RHP or you take the high road and I'll take the low road. I've seen a lot of debates raging about how you should define the LHP and RHP, most sensible suggestions for those who need such definitions suggest the LHP is all about tantric practices and quaffing down gallons of bodily fluids.
At the end of the day though I think all these definitions are subjective and limiting. If you want to play the guitar properly you need to use both hands!"
LHP/ RHP, as used by most Satanic religions, boils down to something along the following lines:
LHP seeks to empower the ego and leads towards apotheosis.
RHP seeks to break down the ego and leads to Tao/ Samadhi/ ect.
I don't really see how you can "play with both hands" and simultaneously build and break down your ego so as to sever yourself from the universe and become one with it. I don't know what debates you've been looking at, but systems like LaVeyan Satanism are both clearly LHP and clearly devoid of "tantric practices and quaffing down gallons of bodily fluids" - "I am my own God" is enough to fit the definition resoundingly.
The reason black brothers are black brothers, according to Crowley, is that they refuse to let go of their ego - that is, they take the Left Hand Path. Properly crossing the Abyss in Crowley's system means letting go of one's ego, and embracing the Right Hand Path.
As for the actual OP:
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First one would have to establish which Satanism we're discussing. Joy of Satan is very different than Church of Satan is very different than Temple of Set is very different than the Order of Nine Angels, and so forth.
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Joy of Satan = crazy people. Unless, of course, we actually want to get on the boat with people who preach that the war on Iraq was Bush's attempt to destroy artifacts in Saddam's possession that could disprove Christianity.
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Ceremonial magick =/= Thelema. The fact that many Thelemites practice Goetia, as do many followers of JoSM, in no way implies that the two systems are compatible. Technically there may be overlaps, but philosophically they are worlds apart.
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I stand by YHVH's point about LHP/ RHP - one of the few common elements amongst Satanic religions is the LHP desire to strengthen the ego.
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i'm no expert in satanism or in the joy of satan for that matter.
But it seems fairly clear to me that Thelema and Satanism are very different, at least very different from that kind of Satanism that guy was talking about. I can't see no difference between the way he spoke about satan, and the way a common priest would talk about God, very superficial, and very litteral, meaning that he takes satan as an Entity that actually is and has to be worshiped, much like God. From what i understand from his words, his view of magic is just Satan worship and demon evocation.
Master Crowley's teachings are universal, subtle, deep and meaningful, and can't be compared to some fanatic Satanist view of Magick(if they really do understand what Magick is).To the question that is there any Satanist Thelemite, i'd say, it depend's on what kind of satanism we are talking about, what we mean with Satan.
I for example have a very deep respect for the figure of Lucifer, The Rebel, and i don't ask if he even exists or not because i do not really care. I that respect i might be called a Satanist from a lot of common people, but i'm in line with Crowley's ideas, and in that regard i might be called a thelemite, although i don't know if i am really one.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
How does an organization purporting to be evil operate anyhow? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't everyone just rebel against the authority of the group until there's nothing left? What could be more honorable in a satanic cult than usurping the authority of the group?
I think organizations of human beings that are evil by principle only exist in movies and video games. In order to be a truly evil organization, you've got to pretend to be good.
@Kingsolomon said
"it almost tempted me .. and I dont know why."
Don't be tempted by upstarts. If you want to join a truly evil organization, I happen to know of one that is worldwide. They've been perpetrating sexual abuse on children, and systematically covering it up for years. And they're rich!
Love is the law, love under will.
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"How does an organization purporting to be evil operate anyhow? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't everyone just rebel against the authority of the group until there's nothing left? What could be more honorable in a satanic cult than usurping the authority of the group?"
JoSM doesn't purport to be evil.
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As Above, So Below
I would be wary of any orginization that says they are right and everyone else is wrong.
It is not odd, that they would see the demons "differently." Worshiping them as Gods certainly has an effect on how they view them.
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the joy of satan is below me actually
there is some people who practice luciferian witchcraft...
maybe hillary clinton??
but who knows of that organization that systematically abuses children..
Theres a whole bunch of them..
some say the OTO is evil as well and the Rosicrucians..
They even go as so far to say that the Rosicrucians Run the world.. along with Bilderberg, Bohemian Grove, and the Freemasons..
I belong to 70% of the groups i'm saying here except bohemian grove and bilderberg. I have to be rich and powerful to belong to both of those groups..
I agree there is some power with the Rosicrucians and theres Power with the Freemasons. I've found that they both lead to one supreme being. and the OTO does as well..
But in these organizations, they all teach you to master your own will, even the masons do. Yeah you might have to acknowledge baphomet by symbols. But one thing about symbols, People put power into a symbol. Without People, a symbol would be nothing.
all these dumb ass people like inforwars.com and bilderberg.org. and davidicke.com. Alex Jones, Dr. Stanley Monteith, Tony from Bilderberg.org and David Icke all make money off our stupidity, they say that all these organizations are evil, and that they puport a one world order..
The one world order, It might be possible. but even they say the JOY of satan is doing the same thing..
Friends, all these organizations are doing to me is Costing me money.
If you are proficient at Thelema and Witchcraft, and Rosicrucianism, You can do anything you ever wanted to do. ... You dont need the Joy of Satan to do things..
I admit I bought some stuff out of their website, they ripped me off, becuase I already knew the magick and stuff, all they did was talk about runic kabbalah, and egyptian kabbalah.
really.. the whole point is your true will. and Ceremonial Magick if you want something or need something..
thats the whole point in life with knowledge and conversation with your holy guardian angel in which i'm working on right now.
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@nashimiron said
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@YHVH said
"About left-hand-path "thelemites": I think that the Book of the Law is pretty clear about this (personal oppinion):"I22.
Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.
"Isn't this instruction clearly contrary to the objectives of the LHP???"
"It's also clearly contrary to other statements written by Crowley, who seemed perfectly happy to cause hurt, so I don't know that I understand your statement.
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Something very interesting on the link to the Runes, supposedly the original Kabballah:
www.geocities.com/futhark_runes/RunesSecretMeaning.html
"Eihwaz, literally referring to a Yew Tree and thereby reminding us of the Tree of Life, represents the Cycle of Life and Death. The Death of the Old Age of the Zodiac, and the Birth of the New Age. "
I've mentioned this rune before on this forum, but I think Jim's response was that he just had no interest in it.
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i'm interested in runic and egyptian kabbalah red fezz,. it's the same as the hebrew kabbalah, but I have to find the names and where they fit in the tree of life and how they fit, and how to vibrate the names you want to vibrate while practicing kabbalah, maybe you might have a resource for me
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@Kingsolomon said
"i'm interested in runic and egyptian kabbalah red fezz,. it's the same as the hebrew kabbalah, but I have to find the names and where they fit in the tree of life and how they fit, and how to vibrate the names you want to vibrate while practicing kabbalah, maybe you might have a resource for me"
I don't know if there is a runic Kabballah necessarily, but the Joy Of Satan people seem to be saying so. We do know for pretty certain that the Qabalah does come from Egypt prior to the Jewish Kabballah and that the Jews probably got it from the Greeks who got it from Egypt. Interestingly, there were some tradelines that ran through the frozen north part of Europe where there just happens to be runic inscriptions all over the place and a religion which is still being pieced together which is remarkably similar to what we know of the Qabalah. There are some fair differences, though, too: the trees are not identical, for example.
Your best bet would be to check out the YahooGroups. There is one dedicated to the Runes which is full of academics and people to whom the runes are part of their heritage and culture. One woman I met there wrote some ground-breaking book about the runes as an academic (University) text that was about 2.5 inches thick and cost about $100 if I remember correctly. This is the most up-to-date source of accurate information about the Runes that I know of.
I wouldn't take too much stock in what American "rune experts" claim. Apparently, Stephen/Edred is off the mark quite a bit... and he is generally considered one of the foremost experts on the runes in these English-speaking parts. Check out the YahooGroups, but if I was you, I would NOT mention the word "Kabballah." They're likely to politely dismiss your questions as foolish cross-breeding or something.
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I understand why Jim would not be interested in that. He already knows the kabbalah.
That Joy of Satan is quite goofed up..
The only legit satanic group I've seen is <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.luciferianwitchcraft.com/main">www.luciferianwitchcraft.com/main</a><!-- w -->
they promote the books of Michael W. Ford. Who.. LOL Ironically was a member of the OTO.
These people.. Thelema is the truest source of all spiritual contact.
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Yeah, the sort of people often interested in the runes kind of freaks me out. A lot of them seem to be pretty into Nazi ideas. Some, like Stephen Flowers, keep a certain distance, but given the books he's published about the Nazi occult practices, it's hard to believe he's not pro-Nazi.
And what I really don't get about these people is they seem to think they're on the stronger side (side of Satan, that is)... but, like, if that were true, would Satanists be hiding in a closet right now? If Satan was pro-Hitler (as JOS / Black Sun website listed above seems to think), doesn't it say something that Hitler lost? And, according to them, the Jews and their Jewish magick have the world wrapped around their finger! To me, that indicates, if nothing else, that the "Satan" people are on the weaker side, not the stronger side.
The little bit I read about Crowley's interest in Hitler and the little bit I've read about Crowley's readiness and even delight in sadism, dishonesty and violence turned me off quite a bit at the time(s), so I just can't imagine joining a group who's whole ambition in life is to help Satan fight a war against the Jews. Then what??? Everlasting ultimate satisfaction?! I seriously doubt that's possible with a mindset hellbent on war and revenge. If you're into Jew-hating, war and honorable death (in battle), why not just become a nutty terrorist? Seems about as fulfilling. But, no! Of course not! Because those people are semitic! They can only be happy if they are aryan bullies. It's very easy to see how arbitrary and deluded these people are... and, in my opinion, that tends to happen when personification comes into religious ideas of dualism.**
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Ah yes, I agree Redd Fezz, the only way to become truly knowledgeable, is get ALL the books, and take in what is useful and discard what is useless. But Thelema is really the basis of ALL magick, because it teaches all the fundementals of Jewish magick with is Kabbalah.. Right?
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have you all ever read and watched videos on hitler and the occult practices.
wewelsburg castle, the black sun, all of which are satanic in some form or another..
another thing to consider that the demons and satan have really ran strong in africa,
Look at the country of africa, Darfur, the diamond trading of the past. The Goetic spirits will not hide the fact that some of them are spirit behind Africas misfortune,
Vassago said to Poke Runyon in the DVD The dark mirror of Magick, that A son of Africa will be slain.. 2 weeks later in early 2001, The President of Congo was murdered by his bodyguard.
And these People are Loyal to these spirits... I mean This is some deep stuff were talking here.
Joy of Satan
The temple of Set
the Church of Lucifer
The Church of Satan
and many others who are opposing the TRUE source of magick.. Thelema..Wow I could be a Public speaker. Get get peoples attention..
or a preacher who colelcts money and rides off in a 2007 Coupe DeVille.. YES, that is wonderful to think of.
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If demons are going crazy in Africa, all it proves to me is that it's not rewarding to invest your time in them. Worst place in the world to live = get 1 Jesus Christ, people.
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I dont encourage anyone to do Goetia,
But if you do, ask the spirit you summon, about what were taking about and see what they say..
They have to tell the truth..
I have yet to do Goetia, because i'm not Proficient in Thelema in that stage of my true will, and when I do Goetia, I will probably never do it by myself..
They do not play with humans, they hate us for many reasons. But some do help us. But they seem not not tell the truth to the Satanist, They have to read old Grimoiries to get the truth.
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I don't know why they would "have" to tell the truth. I think you'd have to be pretty confident in your level of accomplishment to consider it a fact that a Goetic demon has told you the "truth" when truth is relative and demons have the known tendencies to lie and manipulate. I don't think whatever they would have to tell me about what we've been discussing would be all that enlightening. As far as the Poke Runyun thing, I've seen more amazing coincidences in Tarot spreads and daily life/pathwork. Poke Runyun also does some simple things like the LBRP differently than anyone else, so I don't know what system he's supposed to be using. As far as I can tell, any idiot can mess around with demons and demons are good at convincing mere humans of just about any idiotic thing. In the end, there is no way to prove a demon, or any apparent outside entity for that matter, including humans, is benign... but, trusting beings who claim responsibility for African chaos and tragedy is about as wise as joining the Blood or Crip street gangs for safety.