The Holy Guardian Angel VIA Liber Samekh
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Personally, I recommend doing all steps of the A.'.A.'. Grades below Adeptus Minor to get the foundation - there are things learned and capacities gained in pretty much every step of the way.
See: <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.OrdoAA.org">www.OrdoAA.org</a><!-- w -->
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i've done liber samekh a lot, actually had it fully memorized and was doing it twice a day for a while.
i don't have K&C however..
regardless, it's one hell of a ritual that DID produce some fantastic results.. hence, if one has the courage to dare, DO IT!
if nothing else, do it in service to your Angel/Daimon whatever.. to better know that being, with the proper concentration/energy level/enthusiasm you generally WILL have results in my experience..
or you may just totally go insane..
but whats a little insanity when the possibilities are so great right?
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I heard of people doing liber samekh and not getting K&C, however, have you done the abramelin working, the full version?
taking off 6 months of work, and committing yourself to the same way Aleister Crowley did it at Boleskine?
theres also Ritual VIII. I wanted to know whos had success on Ritual VIII
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@Kingsolomon said
"theres also Ritual VIII. I wanted to know whos had success on Ritual VIII"
Ritual VIII was the basis of my 5=6 operation, which was succssful.
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Ritual VIII looks difficult
I would have to ask a person who performed it to give me a visual on how to do it..
and plus, they say that you HGA can appear to you visibly
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Kingsolomon said
"theres also Ritual VIII. I wanted to know whos had success on Ritual VIII"Ritual VIII was the basis of my 5=6 operation, which was succssful."
I hope this question will not be too personal, given the character of the operation...
@Liber VIII said
"All that day shall he remain in the enjoyment of the knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.
And for three days after he shall remain from sunrise unto sunset in the temple, and he shall obey the counsel that his Angel shall have given unto him, and he shall suffer those things that are appointed.
And for ten days thereafter shall he withdraw himself as shall have been taught unto him from the fullness of that communion, for he must harmonize the world that is within with the world that is without. "
Are these "three days" nearly identical to the work in the Abramelin operation, i.e. evocation of the Demonic Princes??? If not,what kind of ordeals are we speaking about?
(Speaking english as a foreigner, I presume "to withdraw himself" means "to isolate himself from the world", just without the prayer. Correct?)
On a side note: What's your oppinion on Newcomb's "21st century mage"??? In spite of the fact that I do not have the experience to tell, I don't think that the results from what he is advocating is everywhere near the K&C of the HGA. I mean, his "Evocation of the Demonic Princes" seems to be WAAAAAYYYY too psychological and not-grounded-in-Assiah.
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@Kingsolomon said
"Ritual VIII looks difficult "
It's simply a refinement, by Aiwass, of the classic Abramelin operation.
"I would have to ask a person who performed it to give me a visual on how to do it.."
First, you need to understand that this isn't a fixed, specific ritual. Liber VIII is a framework within which one develops one's own specific implementation. This is nominally referenced in the ritual by the mention of the invocation one will write. For example, this isn't an alternative to Liber Samekh so much as a framework within which to determine the exact means you will use for your distinct operation. The formula and means employed are highly individual. The mature Dominus Liminis or new Adeptus Minor will already have sufficient connection to the Angel that they have guidance in how to approach this - the Angel teaches it. How much guidance others have (who have not undertaken the formal work to lead to the threshold) depends on the depth and authenticity of their existing connection.
In my case, the method was a fusion of everything mystical and magical I had learned worked for me to that point. The basic element was intense, passionate ritual of invocation leading to a peak that generally delivered me to a state where all of my Raja Yoga training allowed me to move across the line. This was supported by various disciplines (mostly certain points of view and ways of working with the phenomena of my world) throughout the day.
"and plus, they say that you HGA can appear to you visibly"
Yes. Absolutely true. There is even a couple of ways in which this is true for physical site. However, to understand the above statement correctly, you need to join it to Crowley's statements that the Body of Light is vehicle wherein the K&C of the HGA occurs, and one's deepening access to those realms is the means of approaching the intimacy.
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I had written a lengthy answer to YHVH's last post. Before I could send, my computer, which normally runs perfectly, picked the moment before the sende to do a hardware wigout and there was no recovery.
I think I must take this as an instruction not to post that answer! (There is also the practical consideration that I don't have time to redo it right now.)
The gist of many points in the answer is that these things are highly individual and I'd hate to generalize.
A few other points...
@YHVH said
"I hope this question will not be too personal, given the character of the operation..."
Any question is OK. I may choose not to answer some.
"Are these "three days" nearly identical to the work in the Abramelin operation, i.e. evocation of the Demonic Princes??? If not,what kind of ordeals are we speaking about?"
The ordeals are highly personal and individual. There is no way to prepare for them, except that they are consequent to all choices previously made in one's life.
I wouldn't generalize for others on whether these are the same three days as described in Abramelin. In any case, the instruction for how to spend them comes from the Angel.
I had written a specific, personal, moderately detailed addressing to the question of the Princes, Sub-Princes, and spirits, and that was just before the computer was temporarily zapped. For now, therefore, I'll trust that I wasn't supposed to write it.
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"I had written a specific, personal, moderately detailed addressing to the question of the Princes, Sub-Princes, and spirits, and that was just before the computer was temporarily zapped"
Nooooo, that is exactly one of the points i'm most interested in. the way i see it, all the Princes and Sub-Princes represent unbalanced energies all around you (people,emotions, ideas, reactions) that must be balanec using one's HGA.
Jim, if you have the time and if you dont mind
i would love to see what you wrote -
@Mysteria said
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"I had written a specific, personal, moderately detailed addressing to the question of the Princes, Sub-Princes, and spirits, and that was just before the computer was temporarily zapped"Nooooo, that is exactly one of the points i'm most interested in. the way i see it, all the Princes and Sub-Princes represent unbalanced energies all around you (people,emotions, ideas, reactions) that must be balanec using one's HGA.
Jim, if you have the time and if you dont mind
i would love to see what you wrote"The key is: After the success in the core operation, your HGA will instruct you in how to spend the next three days. This is an operation for after success in the K&C of the HGA, not preparation for it.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I have long thought that part 3 of the Abramelin book applied not to what we call 5=6 Adeptus Minor, but to 6=5 Adeptus Major.
That is, having succeeded in the task of attaining the K&C of the HGA, the next section is a grimoire of various magical powers.
In between those two parts we find the postscript to the HGA invocation and the preliminary to the magical workings: The particular work with the Princes, Sub-Princes, and spirits.
In my own case, in the last hours of my 93-day Abramelin-esque operation based broadly on Liber VIII, I specifically asked if I was now to begin with work with the Princes etc. The Angel said, "Not now." That day and the months following were about our intimacy, not to be interrupted or suffer distractions.
But the particular work with the Princes, Sub-Princes, and spirits, including the receipt of the four familiars, was critical part of my initiation to 6=5. I can't say that this would be true for everyone, but mention (in response to questions above) that it was true in my case.
Were I responding purely from theory, I would suggest that the main body of the Abramelin work is the task of 5=6 Without - the deepening of the intimacy with the Angel plus both psychological, magical, and practical implementation of the work with the Princes etc. as 5=6 Within; and then the grimoire work 6=5. But that's just theory, a way of witnessing the system in term of steps and processes we already understand. My actual experience on this point is mentioned above.
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I always thought once i start Thelema that I always thought the very first working I do was have K&C of my HGA, then from that I can be guided on my will and with CM..
But the more I read I have diffrent perspectives now..
but it was a noble thought to my intent
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K&C is the first of the two major milestones for a Thelemic magickian, but just because it's the first, doesn't mean it doesn't take work to get there first.
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@Kingsolomon said
"I always thought once i start Thelema that I always thought the very first working I do was have K&C of my HGA, then from that I can be guided on my will and with CM..
But the more I read I have diffrent perspectives now..
but it was a noble thought to my intent"
Noble, indeed.
Please understand that the relationship with the HGA, for most people, is progressive. By that I mean that they are layers of it, and the level that was probably most commonly thought of under that term of K&C by the old GD occurs relatively early. It is unusual for a 1=10 in A.'.A.'. not to have a quite definite conscious linkage, at least during periods. It continues to grow beyond that point.
Aleister Crowley took his first initiation in 1898 and attained the K&C in 1906, eight years later. I entered the A.'.A.'. in 1979 and completed my Abramelin working successfully 13 years later. It's possible to make this kind of progress much faster than I did - depending on your efforts, clarity of direction, karma, etc. - though, on the other hand, there's no rush.
One of my favorite quotes - it comes from Levi - is that a magician should work as if he has eternity at his disposal. The subtle part of that is that, in doing this, one learns actually to live in eternity as a daily reality.
So you may have been completely right about what your "first working" will be. It just may take you a number of years to finish it!
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@Jim Eshelman said
"It's possible to make this kind of progress much faster than I did - depending on your efforts, clarity of direction, karma, etc. - though, on the other hand, there's no rush."
Is it possible for a persons karma to nullify the effects of effort and clarity of direction? In essence they end up chipping away at a previously laid rotten foundation, rather than moving forward.
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@Her said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"It's possible to make this kind of progress much faster than I did - depending on your efforts, clarity of direction, karma, etc. - though, on the other hand, there's no rush."Is it possible for a persons karma to nullify the effects of effort and clarity of direction? In essence they end up chipping away at a previously laid rotten foundation, rather than moving forward."
I'll say yes, then say I disagree with your wording. One's karma (actions) constitute a part of the aggregate of efforts etc.
In other words, one's history shapes who one is and what shape one is in, and what unique challenges one has to overcome - and these are part of the journey, not a side-issue. (The easiest way to understand "karma" is to think of it as if we are talking about events earlier in one's present life, since that's really the nature of the experience.)
On the other hand, good work can begin any day one gets ready to start it!
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"I had written a specific, personal, moderately detailed addressing to the question of the Princes, Sub-Princes, and spirits, and that was just before the computer was temporarily zapped. For now, therefore, I'll trust that I wasn't supposed to write it."
Damn the Yetziratic Powers!
Either way, I really thank you for your input following that post. -
Quote of the Dei:
On the other hand, good work can begin any day one gets ready to start it! -- Jim Eshelman
AUM HA! Ain't it the truth!