LBRP

Jim Eshelman

"Let me cite here the vibration "rules" from Liber O: "

That's a correct means of vibration for the purpose stated, i.e., identification with a God-force. However, it isn't the means used in the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram and similar rituals. (Normally it's used in combination with assumption of God-forms, circumambulations, etc. at the climax of the invocation of a specific God-force.)

This often confuses even advanced students because it is adjacent to the Pentagram section of Liber O - but it's a new topic, not a continuation of the same one. See the last lines of Section II for the setup to the following two sections, and the paragraph preceding the quoted section to get the right relevance.

photogasm

Aha!

Ok, great, that helps.

Turns out I've been doing it correctly all along then, except I was vibrating during the drawing of my pentagrams, not after. I am eager to try the correct way now.

Thanks for the insight as always.

nashimiron

Doh!

For the last couple of months I've been using the signs of the Enterer and Harpocrates way of vibrating but the impression that this was major overkill has been slowly dawning upon me. When I started experimenting with the Supreme pentagram ritual I tried the vibrations like this:

Visualize the letters glowing white in front of you.
Breathe in the letters and let them travel own to your heart centre, there imagining them vibrating in that centre.
Pointing to the centre of the pentagram pronounce the name imagining the letters travelling up from your heart centre and out through the tip of your dagger / thumb / snake coiled round your forearm...

Is this actually the correct way it's done in this ritual? Is it necessary to visualize then letters or just imagine the Name as a force of light or some such abstract thing?

Jim Eshelman

@nashimiron said

"Is it necessary to visualize then letters or just imagine the Name as a force of light or some such abstract thing?"

"Necessary" may be too strong a word; but, after about 30 years doing this stuff, I still routinely use a similar approach. Seeing the Hebrew letters in living flame is a powerful embodiment of the Name, and seeing myself as inhaling those flaming letters before my exhalation and vibration is good magick!

Chris Hanlon

"Seeing the Hebrew letters in living flame is a powerful embodiment of the Name, and seeing myself as inhaling those flaming letters before my exhalation and vibration is good magick!"

Wow. I'm going to do that.
Thanks, Jim.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333

nashimiron

Yep I do think I'd miss the blazing Hebrew letters if I dumbed them down to a glowing ball of light. I think the more effort you put into learning these details the more you get out of the ritual.

Also, when I'm doing it I notice that focusing on the individual letters as holy fetishistic items does help pull my mind up to the level I want it to be at. They really help establish a feeling of reverence, which makes you turn away from the mundane slog of the day and tune in to higher things.

Anchorite

93
I've been lurking for a while and I have these questions I hope someone can answer.
I noticed Jim mentioned someone who was banishing earth for the LBRP and suffered as a result. I'm not sure If I'm doing that exactly but - anyway:

During the formation and charging of the pentagrams what should one be visualising apart from the pentagrams themselves?
Is one banishing malkuth or the actual malkuthian forms of the elements in Ahssiah? I just think that it's all well and good charging the bright blue pents with the God names but unless one knows what this symbol represents then surely the mind cannot pick up this symbol in an intuitive way later on?
I for instance banish the negative forms of the elements - ie sentimentality and heartache during the West pentagram. Is this incorrect?
Also in the same vein, when one is formulating the elemental hexagrams in the BRH what should one be banishing then?
I've read at least a hundred articles on the lbrp and none of them cover this area.
Cheers for taking the time to read this .

Jim Eshelman

@Anchorite said

"During the formation and charging of the pentagrams what should one be visualising apart from the pentagrams themselves?"

Nothing else. Visualize them in blue-white light.

"Is one banishing malkuth or the actual malkuthian forms of the elements in Ahssiah?"

If you are speaking of the (generic) Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, then no.

"I just think that it's all well and good charging the bright blue pents with the God names but unless one knows what this symbol represents then surely the mind cannot pick up this symbol in an intuitive way later on? "

I agree and disagree.

Disagree: This is a real symbol! It communicates directly to subconsciousness. Subconsciousness needs little or no training in what it means, and ego-consciousness doesn't actually have to know what it means.

Agree: One benefits from knowing what the pentagram symbol means per se, but not necessarily what the intention is of the ritual. This ritual eventually communicates to the magician. It seems to do that better when one isn't trying to lay preconceptions on top of it.

"I for instance banish the negative forms of the elements - ie sentimentality and heartache during the West pentagram. Is this incorrect?"

We are switching here from the generic LBR to a specific Water Pentagram Ritual. While you can specifically use it for the purpose you state, that isn't the primary purpose. The invoking Water ritual has the primary purpose of attuning your psyche (as if dialling a radio to the right station) to the "frequency" that aligns it with the elemental idea of Water. Having previously invoked Water for some purpose, the banishing Water ritual de-tunes the mind, releasing the specific tuning to the frequency of elemental Water.

This is why I mentioned previously (this thread? another?) that the words "invoking" and "banishing" are misleading. In the specific elemental forms (rather than the generic LBR), you aren't invoking or banishing anything per se so much as tuning your mind to particular realities.

"Also in the same vein, when one is formulating the elemental hexagrams in the BRH what should one be banishing then?"

Same answer as above. (Generally one would not banish a planetary or elemental idea that one had not previously invoked. The "banishing" then undoes the effect of the invocation.)

Anchorite

Thanks a great deal for taking the time to answer Jim. That's helped a lot. I think I wandered off the basic path for the last 6 months or so.
I do wish there was an good A A system in the UK though, it would take a lot of the load off you from what I've been reading here.

photogasm

Such a simple ritual, but for someone (like myself) who's never seen it performed, and only has a semi-vague text to go on, it can be all sorts of difficult.

gmugmble

@photogasm said

"Such a simple ritual, but for someone (like myself) who's never seen it performed, and only has a semi-vague text to go on, it can be all sorts of difficult."

You can see it performed (by several people) on YouTube.

photogasm

Youtube wasn't around back when I learned it.

Many people (the horror) still don't have internet access.

Just making a point.

kuniggety

Liber O coupled with any of the versions published by Regardie (since it's in like half his books) should be enough to perform the ritual. As to people not having internet... where? Zimbabwe? People at least have the library.

Frater SI

Frater they don't even have Libraries in Zimbabwe anymore I must admit it does look a bit bonkers doing the LBRP .. My wife walked in on me flailing my dagger around a couple of years ago, she had that WTF are you doing look on her face ...

luxinhominefactum

@photogasm said

"Youtube wasn't around back when I learned it.

Many people (the horror) still don't have internet access.

Just making a point."

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

however, anyone reading this does

Love is the law, love under will

kuniggety

@Frater SI said

"Frater they don't even have Libraries in Zimbabwe anymore "

I didn't write that very right, lol. I meant to say that people, on average in a developed country, have the library to use. It was moreof to the people not having internet... and not for the Zimbabwe part. Bah, I suck at writing.

ThatNarrowFellow

93,

Quick question - most everywhere I read the ritual is said to be preformed with a dagger, but in Duquette's The Magick of Thelema he says, or reprints a manuscript that says, one should use the wands.

So... Which is it?

Love=Law

C

Jim Eshelman

@ThatNarrowFellow said

"Quick question - most everywhere I read the ritual is said to be preformed with a dagger, but in Duquette's The Magick of Thelema he says, or reprints a manuscript that says, one should use the wands."

Either, depending.

Most often, it's done without any special implement besides the finger. This isn't a "make do," it's just the practical standard and works as well.

The recommendation for a wand is that this should be an act of will. On the other hand, this is a Mars-themed ritual (the Pentagram is a symbol of Geburah - primarily but not exclusively), so a steel implement is consistent with the root idea. Of steel implements, a blade adds further symbolism.

The arguement against the dagger is that it is a symbol of Air and intellect, usually not what you want.

One solution - to carry the Will elements of the wand and the steel blade advantages of the dagger, but without the Air and intellect implications - is to use a short sword similar to the Roman gladius. (A broadsword is way too cumbersome.) As a sword, it would be dedicated to Mars.

luxinhominefactum

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

when i'm "drawing" stuff like pentagrams, i usually use my right thumb, which i stick between my middle and index fingers so that it sticks out from between them. on one plane, this symbolizes "love under will" and it's never done me wrong

Love is the law, love under will

nashimiron

I too have been using the thumb between fingers technique now for ages. It works fine and if a demon tries to break into your circle you can trick him into thinking you've pulled his nose off.