Egyptian Book of Dead as skrying map of consciousness
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I'll generate a response.
Both books are of the passage of a soul after he/she dies. They guide the individual so he/she can anticipate and handle the different stages. After that, I think that the mythology differs so much, it is hard to discuss. Actually, your question could fill another book with comparisons.
There probably will be someone on the list who can write about this beautifully.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
@gerry456 said
"is it basic knowledge?"
Well, some imagery from the Egyptian texts (Book of the Dead and/or Book of Coming Forth by Day) is reputed to show up in the early A.'.A.'. initiation rituals. Maybe that explains some of the reluctance to talk about it here.
The Tibetan Bardo texts are fascinating, but I don't know to what extent they were well-known in Crowley's time. (Not that this precudes their inclusion in Thelemic teachings... just a possible explanation for why they've not been talked about much).
If this stuff is literally about "the soul's journey after death" or whatnot, then I can also understand why Thelemites would not bother with it. If there's nothing more to them than this, into the garbage they go, I say!
However, as metaphor for the soul's journey "up (and down?) the Tree of Life" in this life, I think there's a lot of good material there waiting to be explored...Steve
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There are most likely 100s of books that follow this theme of helping/following the self/soul through the stages of 'death.' You might want to realize that dead people can't write things down so the person who wrote it obviously went through these experiences while alive... they most likely have a large psychological (but a dubious physiological) significance... Perhaps this points towards a uniformity of a psychological phenomenon - that of psychological death. (It seems people in the past readily confused psychological truths with physical ones, as shown by the geocentric maps of alchemists which are, psychologically, still quite valid as we DO see things from the perspective of earth - symbolically, our own body).
IAO131
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@Steven Cranmer said
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@gerry456 said
"is it basic knowledge?"Well, some imagery from the Egyptian texts (Book of the Dead and/or Book of Coming Forth by Day) is reputed to show up in the early A.'.A.'. initiation rituals. Maybe that explains some of the reluctance to talk about it here.
e"
i don't understand
we talk about everything else
i'm still amazed noone is interested in this
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(Big sigh).
Subject is too broad. Share your own ideas using examples from both the opening mouth ceremonies of Egypt and the Bardos concepts from Tibetan journey.
What DO YOU THINK ABOUT it?
Thanks,
chrys333 -
@gerry456 said
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@Steven Cranmer said
"Well, some imagery from the Egyptian texts (Book of the Dead and/or Book of Coming Forth by Day) is reputed to show up in the early A.'.A.'. initiation rituals. Maybe that explains some of the reluctance to talk about it here."i don't understand
we talk about everything else"
Though I'd certainly appreciate more openness in this regard, I can certainly understand and empathize with the general policy (i.e., akin to a "no spoilers" policy when discussing books or movies that are about to be released). Just because I don't plan on undergoing these specific rituals, I can understand why the "surprise factor" is important for those that do.
A year or so ago, someone named SPQR attempted to post some details from an unpublished ("secret") A.'.A.'. ritual and was banned from the forum. (After more than one violation, it should be noted.)
"i'm still amazed noone is interested in this"
I guess I agree with Chris, here. I don't know of any systems of scrying or initiation "out there" (i.e., in books or on the net) that are systematically modeled on the Egyptian or Tibetan books of the dead. (I haven't googled for it specifically, though)
If you'd like to start developing one, more power to ya.Steve
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The banning (for the record) wasn't for that - it was for being repeatedly contentious, stirring trouble, picking fights, libelling other participants, and the like.
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@Steven Cranmer said
"Well, some imagery from the Egyptian texts (Book of the Dead and/or Book of Coming Forth by Day) is reputed to show up in the early A.'.A.'. initiation rituals."
Wallis Budge, who first translated the Egyptian Book of the Dead into English, was an aquaintance of several of the original Golden Dawn members, so it's not surprising that bits and pieces of the B of the D pop up here and there in G.D. and A.'.A.'. texts and rituals. For example, verse 1 of Liber Tzaddi, "I fly and I alight as an hawk: of mother-of-emerald are my mighty-sweeping wings," is from a B of the D spell called Transformation into a Hawk of Gold: "I fly, I alight like a hawk with a back of seven cubits, and the wings of which are like unto the mother-of-emerald of the South." Another example is the line from the Gnostic Mass, "There is no part of me that is not of the Gods," which is from a spell in Chapter 17 (I think) of the B of the D. There were several rather different versions of this spell, but the gist of it is to identify parts of your body with different gods, e.g., "My face is like the Solar Disk. ... My cheeks are like the cheeks of Isis. ... My buttocks are like the Eye of Horus. [That's my favorite line.] ... My fingers and toes are like living uraeus serpents. ..." At the end, you say, "There is no part of me that is not like one of the gods, and Thoth is the protector of all my flesh." It's a fun spell -- I used to recite it in the shower.
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@Chris Hanlon said
"(Big sigh).
Subject is too broad. Share your own ideas using examples from both the opening mouth ceremonies of Egypt and the Bardos concepts from Tibetan journey.
What DO YOU THINK ABOUT it?
Thanks,
chrys333"well i don't know at present and that's why i was asking someone who has more of a wealth of skrying experience to elucidate for me.......
noone really knows? Regardie was adamant that that is what the BOD is/was/shall be i.e. a detailed map of the planes IRRESPECTIVE of the afterlife issue (well for skrying initiates anyway).... please do not take this thread onto an irrelevant afterlife trip
cheers
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You can skry every simbol and painting you imagine - at least in theory. Everything is in your brain... so you can use the pictures in EBD or TBD to investigate yourself as Regardie wrote. Read Regardie's Complete GD system of magic, On Skrying.
There are a lot of symbols in a lot of books to skry and expand your understanding. Just get the basic technique going with tattwas first. It's a shame noone could answer this simple question. -
Well, you answered the simple question with advice to study the tattwas, and study symbols of scrying.
How does that compare the Tibetan and Egyptian books of the dead?
chrys333 -
Sorry about the last posting. I see. The query was really about just scrying. It was never about the Books of the Dead and the soul's transition from mortal death to eternal existence and the similarities between the Egyptian version and the Tibetan one.
Got it. Was sidetracked.
chrys333 -
@Modes said
"You can skry every simbol and painting you imagine - at least in theory. Everything is in your brain... so you can use the pictures in EBD or TBD to investigate yourself as Regardie wrote. Read Regardie's Complete GD system of magic, On Skrying.
There are a lot of symbols in a lot of books to skry and expand your understanding. Just get the basic technique going with tattwas first. It's a shame noone could answer this simple question."thankyou
Reagardie seems to be adamant that the realities described in the EBOD are THERE in the planes
anyway i no doubt should be experimenting for myself thanks and that is the crux of the matter
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In regards to the pylon's, it occurs in chapter CXLVI. It bears to mind something I had tried to crack long ago, regarding the pylons. I had thought about making a connection to the paths on the tree of life (22) but the pylons only go to 21. Needless to say it's a ponderous volume and Budge himself mentions that the translations of the pylons where "wanting". As the book itself often says, "What then is this?" If you have any success let us know.
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22 paths and 21 pylons?
maybe one path is rendered irrelevant somehow by dint of the body being deceased in this system and therefore an accurate correlation of attributions does indeed occurr . This cals to mind teh 7 planets 12 zodiacal signs and 4 elements added in tota are 23 yet they are said to neatly fit inot the 22 paths. this issolved when we minus the earth element from the equation as we are "already" in malkuth. Maybe this is erroneous ; just some thoughts
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Exactly. That is what I like about these forums. Now we are getting somewhere. You might be right about that, and I will have to ponder this more. If we did take out Malkuth, this could work. The Secret Knowledge of the Qabalah was derived from the Ancient Wisdom of the Initiated Magic of Egypt. It would seem then there is good cause to pursue this.
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you would have to omit a path so let's say you were dead. Which path would then be an irrelevance? Tav perhaps( the 32nd path)?
However isn't it right to point out that there is somewhat of a dichotomy between the 2 forms of skrying discussed? The Rising On The Planes exercise is not really a pre planed structured and specific ceremonial STUDY of any specific path (re G.D. 32 path skrying in which the entities are tested for their elemental integrity) is it? It (rising on planes) is an exercise of wild Body Of Light refinement and inner expansion; a explorative journey-adventure into, " what is" i.e. the fabric of the Upper Astral. What i'm trying to say is maybe the Egyptian priesthood performed/struggled with this exercise regularly and came to recognise the various stations or astral grooves and in time they documented these in their BOD. as teh Pylons/gods encountered
The analogy is Rising On The Planes is like the rocketeer flying/struggling onward towards the mountain peaks whereas G..D.- ceremonial 32 path- skrying is akin to someone taking a cable- ride to a specific pre planned location on that mountain and testing the integrity of the guide they meet there.
maybe there is no dichotomy ; just some thoughts
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that wasn't my main point
someone came in and suggested is theer a link between BOD and 32 paths and i gave him food for thougth so the thread went off on a tangent again.
The thread is about the Rising On The Planes and a statement Regardie made about how the content /entities of the BOD is/are intertwined in that exercise.