Reguli
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@Jackdaw said
"Does it banish and invoke? If not, what is its general complement?"
As it's subtitle indicates, it's an invoking ritual.
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Okay, so then, like I asked, what is its complement? It seems funny to apply the Star Ruby with a different invoking ritual, would you advise using the lesser or greater banishing rituals of the pentagram and hexagram?
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"It seems funny to apply the Star Ruby with a different invoking ritual"
The Star Ruby is essentially a banishing ritual and works very well as such. You could apply any other banishing ritual you would like but the Star Ruby would work fine.
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I just feel like the Star Ruby begs for the Star Sapphire; at least if you're going to perform an invoking ritual. They seem like a complete package together and if I did the Star Ruby and then Reguli I'd feel like I was cheating on the Star Sapphire.
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@Jackdaw said
"Okay, so then, like I asked, what is its complement? It seems funny to apply the Star Ruby with a different invoking ritual, would you advise using the lesser or greater banishing rituals of the pentagram and hexagram?"
In the spirit of Reguli, I'd say there is none. You're leaving yourself open to all the filth within yourself and the universe.
But if you wanted a banishing first, why not the Star Ruby? I'm not sure if your phrase "a different invoking ritual" means you think Star Ruby is an invoking ritual - it isn't, it's pure banishing. But in that case, you'd have to use the later version of the Star Ruby to establish quadrant compatibility with Reguli.
Soror Meral always used to precede Reguli with a standard Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, and recommended that students do the same when they begin experimenting with it.
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@Jackdaw said
"I just feel like the Star Ruby begs for the Star Sapphire;"
I'd never make that comparison. For one, only a few would undertake the Star Sapphire, and only a few of those will have the slightest idea what it's about.
Curiously, thinking back, I don't know if I've ever preceded the Star Sapphire with the Star Ruby. Though they seem logically related, they never felt related in practice. Of course, I've (almost) only performed the Star Sapphire in a set-aside space, purified and consecrated in advance and dedicated as an equivalent to the Vault of the Adepti. But perhaps that's just me.
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@Jackdaw said
"I just feel like the Star Ruby begs for the Star Sapphire; at least if you're going to perform an invoking ritual. They seem like a complete package together and if I did the Star Ruby and then Reguli I'd feel like I was cheating on the Star Sapphire."
It really all depends on the intention of the working. The way I understand things at this point in time is that Liber V vel Reguli is, as the subtitle states, to invoke the energies proper to this aeon.
The Star Sapphire aims at the assimilation of the inner with the outer, the formulation of the rose cross.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Jackdaw said
"I just feel like the Star Ruby begs for the Star Sapphire;"I'd never make that comparison. For one, only a few would undertake the Star Sapphire, and only a few of those will have the slightest idea what it's about.
Curiously, thinking back, I don't know if I've ever preceded the Star Sapphire with the Star Ruby. Though they seem logically related, they never felt related in practice."
So what ritual do you generaly use for invokation after the Star Ruby?
Why is the Star Sapphire in Liber ABA?
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@Jackdaw said
"So what ritual do you generaly use for invokation after the Star Ruby?"
I don't use it that much... and when I do, it's tied into more complex rituals. I primarily use it when I want a "scorched earth" level of cleaning before a profoundly serious bigger work. - For day to day, I much prefer the LBR.
"And why is the Star Sapphire in Liber ABA directly succeeding the Star Ruby?"
That's just the way they were collated. They were written together.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"For day to day, I much prefer the LBR."
The LBR of the Pentagram and Hexagram followed by their invoking counterparts has always seemed tedious to me; do you use something else for invokation?
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@Jackdaw said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"For day to day, I much prefer the LBR."The LBR of the Pentagram and Hexagram followed by their invoking counterparts has always seemed tedious to me; do you use something else for invokation?"
What kind of invocation? The word can be used many different ways, and my answer would vary accordingly. But, in general, yes I use variations of the traditional Lesser, Greater, and Supreme Pentagram and Hexagram Rituals most often for the act of invoking a principle attuned to one of them.
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93, All,
"Jim said:
In the spirit of Reguli, I'd say there is none. You're leaving yourself open to all the filth within yourself and the universe.
"Which, to me, explains why I felt the need to wrap myself up in blankets and lie in bed for the next eight hours after doing it the first time back in 2006!
"Jackdaw wrote:
Okay, so then, like I asked, what is its complement? It seems funny to apply the Star Ruby with a different invoking ritual, would you advise using the lesser or greater banishing rituals of the pentagram and hexagram? "Wow. It never occured to me to even ask this question!
In fact, I've considered Reguli to be like some Tantric processes in that it, in my experience, is to the other pentagram rituals what rolfing is to massage. It really shakes things up and breaks down 'calcified' thought-forms and body armor. I actually feel as if C.S. Hyatt's 'Undoing Yourself' process (at least the first several steps articulated in his book 'Undoing Yourself with Energized Meditation') could be excellent preparation for doing this Ritual. Of course, one would already be working through efficacious use of the LRP/GRP/SRP/Star Ruby rituals.
I also feel the 'First Gesture' has applications beyond this Ritual, much as the Qabalistic Cross does, as well.
In my arrogant opinion, of course!
93s,
THVR
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@Jim Eshelman said
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"And why is the Star Sapphire in Liber ABA directly succeeding the Star Ruby?"That's just the way they were collated. They were written together."
So why is it under the heading Principal Ritual?
Also rituals seem similar in form to me and I feel like the comment from the Book of Lies ties them together saying, "The Star Sapphire corresponds with the Star-Ruby..."
I think I was getting confused between consecration, the instruction in the LRH that it be performed after the LRP, and the link I perceived between the LRH and the Star Sapphire; which it seems like you're saying doesn't exist (and is confusing me what with it being refered to in its Book of Lies commentary as the 'real and perfect ritual of the hexagram).
I was thinking a general ritual might begin with a banishing and a general invocation before proceeding to the purpose of the ritual.
I suppose this general invocation doesn't exist and that an invocation specific to the ritual purpose is undertaken within the body of the ritual?
In this case then the preliminary practices would be purification, banishment, and consecration; only banishment of which is ritualistic?Also, on that note, during the consecration of a person, is the symbol used some form of the combination of micro and macrocosm or is it tooled to the entity to be later invoked? If so, are there linear symbols for entities like Dionysus and Isis or is the magician to ad-lib there?
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Well a ritual is a ritual as 1 is not 0.5
Star Ruby, as I understand it, has an invocation as the LBPR has - the invocation of daemons. Any ritual work should begin with a banishing. Now Reguli is another 1 and the one I wouldn't do without astral vision. And I don't have the vision yet.
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Does TOT (if you are a member) offer training or practice in rituals like Reguli, LBR, etc? If so, is it wiser to wait for the opportunity to be advised in the rituals or if you think you understand them proficiently, should you just jump right into them?
From what I've read/learned, some rituals seem to have varying effect of certain degree depending on how they are executed. Others seem like they either produce effects or not. And some, certainly, seem like they would have negative effects or shouldn't be attempted without guidance. It would be good to know which rituals one can handle alone and which rituals should wait until one has reached the proper level of experience and understanding.
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Why is the Star Sapphire under the heading Principal Ritual?
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@Nudor said
"Does TOT (if you are a member) offer training or practice in rituals like Reguli, LBR, etc?"
"Like"? Yes. Specifics? Mixed.
For example: Liber Reguli is nowhere in the curriculum. LBR training is early and it's a major feature of First Order work.
"From what I've read/learned, some rituals seem to have varying effect of certain degree depending on how they are executed. Others seem like they either produce effects or not. And some, certainly, seem like they would have negative effects or shouldn't be attempted without guidance. It would be good to know which rituals one can handle alone and which rituals should wait until one has reached the proper level of experience and understanding."
None of them will kill you.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Jackdaw said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"For day to day, I much prefer the LBR."The LBR of the Pentagram and Hexagram followed by their invoking counterparts has always seemed tedious to me; do you use something else for invokation?"
What kind of invocation? The word can be used many different ways, and my answer would vary accordingly. But, in general, yes I use variations of the traditional Lesser, Greater, and Supreme Pentagram and Hexagram Rituals most often for the act of invoking a principle attuned to one of them."
I meant the general invocation suggested in Liber O, part IV, verse 4. I assume you use one of those for the 'special invocation' also suggested.
If you used the LBRP & H followed by a general invocation would you then later use the LIRP & H and would that be the climax of the ritual or the end of preliminary action?
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@Jackdaw said
"I meant the general invocation suggested in Liber O, part IV, verse 4. I assume you use one of those for the 'special invocation' also suggested."
Oh, that. All sorts of different things. The purpose of that step in a ritual is to draw undifferentiated current - essentially wiring your house before you concern yourself with what sort of appliances you want to plug in. So, for example (one example of dozens), one of the Middle Pillar rituals would be perfect. So would general invocations such as "Thou who art I," etc. from The Ship.
"If you used the LBRP & H followed by a general invocation would you then later use the LIRP & H and would that be the climax of the ritual or the end of preliminary action?"
More like "the beginning of the middle."
For preliminaries I think more in terms of clearing the space (banishings, purifications, etc. - creating the Zero), the preliminary invocation (turning on the generic current), and declaring the purpose of the ritual. One then moves on the a specific invocation and enactment of whatever formula embodies the intended consequence of the work (the heart of the specific ritual proper), some means of drawing that invoked force down to the intended plane (resulting in a specific force drawn down to a specific level of vibration) and grounding, followed by whatever conclusion is required.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"followed by whatever conclusion is required."
Do you perform certain ceremonies to conclude general rituals?