True Will... How do you put it to use in daily life?
-
@frzzlmom said
"I am a bit confused about how Crowleys astrology figures into this topic...Jim...perhaps you could explain this for me...."
The explanation is... It doesn't figure in. It's irrelevant to the subject. Crowley, like everyone in the West of his generation, was stuck in the Tropical zodiac delusion. The core proofs and discoveries for the Sidereal zodiac didn't start emerging until a couple of years before Crowley's death.
-
93,
Can anyone tell me if I am remembering this right? I read a document on a website that I now can't locate that was attributed to Crowley, and that spelled out his vision for an ideal Thelemic society.
In it, he explained his notion of the slave race being a perfectly well-fed and industrious group kept under control by the more enlightened. I believe he used the phrase, "let them have their mutton." Or something to that effect. He further argued that the state should try to determine the true Will of children by a variety of means, including analysis of their birth charts.
I remember the background of the website was black, which irritated me. Anyway, does anyone have any idea what this document was? If it was real, how, if at all, does it relate to astrology and true Will?
love=law
- C
-
This is very interesting....I can't imagine Crowley saying something like that....How could it be possible for some one else to really know the True Will of another since no two points of view can be exacly the same?
@ThatNarrowFellow said
"93,
Can anyone tell me if I am remembering this right? I read a document on a website that I now can't locate that was attributed to Crowley, and that spelled out his vision for an ideal Thelemic society.
In it, he explained his notion of the slave race being a perfectly well-fed and industrious group kept under control by the more enlightened. I believe he used the phrase, "let them have their mutton." Or something to that effect. He further argued that the state should try to determine the true Will of children by a variety of means, including analysis of their birth charts.
I remember the background of the website was black, which irritated me. Anyway, does anyone have any idea what this document was? If it was real, how, if at all, does it relate to astrology and true Will?
love=law
- C"
-
Are you perchance speaking of his fictional work Atlantis?
-
Possibly The Scientific Solution of the Problem of Government? It doesn't mention birth charts (or mutton!), but it does discuss how:
"Experts will immediately be appointed to work out, when need arises, the details of the True Will of every individual, and even that of every corporate body whether social or commercial, while a judiciary will arise to determine the equity in the case of apparently conflicting claims."
I wonder, though, if Crowley was just working out the logical implications here of a positive answer to the question: "Can the True Will of person X be determined by person Y?" I don't know if he actually believed the answer to this question is "yes."
-
93,
I'm pretty sure I was remembering The Scientific Solution to the Problems of Government, and simply threw in some other stuff that came from other documents. It was years ago that I read it.
Anyway, the real issue I wanted to get as was whether or not the birth chart is useful in determining the true Will, and if so, how?
There's no reason to appeal to Crowley to answer that question, anyway.
love=law
- C
-
@ThatNarrowFellow said
"Anyway, the real issue I wanted to get as was whether or not the birth chart is useful in determining the true Will, and if so, how?"
There's no "magic formula" for it. The gist is that the horoscope shows authentic character, and authentic character shows True Will.
Sometimes it seems there is something approaching a formula, but it wold be an overstatement to claim it. In a very substantial majority (80%?) of cases within my knowledge, people who (through deep self-examination and spiritual maturity) found and gave voice to the True Wills have stated it where their Sidereal Sun sign is the verb and their Sidereal Moon sign the predicate nominative. (In possibly all of these cases, and certianly in most of them, the person didn't realize the astrological pattern until after the fact.)
For example, Crowley had a (Sidereal) Virgo Sun and Aquarius Moon - a Mercurial Sun and Uranian Moon. He articulated his True Will as, "To teach the Next Step." (What this 'next step' meant changed over time, but the core articulation remained unchanged.)
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"The gist is that the horoscope shows authentic character, and authentic character shows True Will."
I would have thought a horoscope would be more limited in its scope, only showing the mask the soul assumes for one lifetime. I wouldn't expect to find the "life one, individual, and eternal" described in a nativity except very indirectly.
"their Sidereal Sun sign is the verb and their Sidereal Moon sign the predicate nominative."
This is too intriguing not to pester you about. More examples please? Or what might be some verbs and nouns associated with different planets?
-
@gmugmble said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"The gist is that the horoscope shows authentic character, and authentic character shows True Will."I would have thought a horoscope would be more limited in its scope, only showing the mask the soul assumes for one lifetime. I wouldn't expect to find the "life one, individual, and eternal" described in a nativity except very indirectly."
Me either. And I wasn't including any of that in the definition of True Will that was being discussed here. - Notice I specifically related it to character.
"
"their Sidereal Sun sign is the verb and their Sidereal Moon sign the predicate nominative."This is too intriguing not to pester you about. More examples please? Or what might be some verbs and nouns associated with different planets?"
I can't give more examples without compromising people's privacy.