Observations about the Thoth Tarot
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@Red Eagle of Death said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I haven't given an opinion on that here."It is evident that you haven't...are you avoiding the inquiry for a reason?"
Oh, several. The biggest is that I don't think it matters much. This probably comes partly from my using so many decks over the years that I'm used to ignoring most details in favor of simply understanding the core idea of the card.
In this particular case, somewhere around here I have Crowley's correspondence with Harris on the matter where this is discussed. I'd hate to take a position at odds with such a record, but I'm sure not going to take the time to dig out the record. (Again, I was so unconcerned about the matter that I didn't bother even to decisively note the outcome.)
Subject to contradiction by the actual correspondence, I think it was an error that Harris made and which Crowley didn't manage to get her to correct.
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@Lapis said
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@Jim Eshelman said
""Proper construction" of a Tarot deck refers to the symbols on it, not the words. Anything your conscious mind can read is pretty insignificant. (And yes, that includes the titles of the cards.)"This is a logical inconsistency. Everything is a symbol that communicates something or another to the subconscious mind - & for a Qabalist, this is especially true of letters."
Letters such as the Hebrew letter of the path - but not so much words written on it.
In other words: Is it being used as a symbol (speaking to subconsciousness) or a word (speaking to self-consciousness). I submit that the word on the awning is of the latter type (utterly unnecessary for the former).
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@Red Eagle of Death said
"If it's a pictoral error, then(unless that light is made of letters), according to Jim's definition of 'properly constructed', it is an improperly constructed deck...so which is it?"
You're missing a third possibility: It's visually accurate, but the light is not (as the text suggests) from Chokmah.
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@student2012 said
"The assumption I operate under is that the cards were received, not engineered by A.C."
No, that's wrong. That's not how it happened.
Crowley gave some rough notes to Harris. Harris painted pictures (and any real inspiration was hers). He asked her for corrections sometimes and to redo cards sometimes. Usually she did. He was grateful for the paintings.
It was an artistic-literary collaboration. She drew on his writings and her own artistry, he had (for the most part) editorial control.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@student2012 said
"The assumption I operate under is that the cards were received, not engineered by A.C."No, that's wrong. That's not how it happened.
Crowley gave some rough notes to Harris. Harris painted pictures (and any real inspiration was hers). He asked her for corrections sometimes and to redo cards sometimes. Usually she did. He was grateful for the paintings.
It was an artistic-literary collaboration. She drew on his writings and her own
artistry, he had (for the most part) editorial control."Hey Jim, ok fair enough.
Was there some magical operation in progress parallel to this collaboration?
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You're missing a third possibility: It's visually accurate, but the light is not (as the text suggests) from Chokmah."
I have considered this possibility but was not able to come to any satisfactory conclusions about it...love illuminating the subconscious?
616
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@student2012 said
"Was there some magical operation in progress parallel to this collaboration?"
Nothing in particular, no. The magick of writing letters back and forth...
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Another 'discovery', new to me anyway, and one I can share, once the card is alive on the astral, it is possible to project the consciousness of the operator into different parts of the card. Meaning that instead of you looking outside and into the card, your seat of consciousness is inside the card, looking around from that vantage point. An example is the Queen of Disks, placing it in the center in the cube on her wand. Another is the Prince of Disks, and the Princess of Disks. I place myself inside these 3D objects and look out from it to the rest of the card, or the world specified by it. Very interesting result.
It is possible to put the seat of consciousness into a figure as well, sort of an assumption of a godform in the card. An example of this is the Princess of Swords. When I did that I heard a booming voice in the aether, but I could not understand the words.
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@KRVB MMShCh said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You're missing a third possibility: It's visually accurate, but the light is not (as the text suggests) from Chokmah."I have considered this possibility but was not able to come to any satisfactory conclusions about it...love illuminating the subconscious?
616"
Just some thoughts, not meant to be conclusive or definitive. The light is not from the fiery Sephira Chokhmah at the top of the pillar of force, but from the fiery Sephira Netzach at the base of that pillar. This path imprints Desire (Netzach) onto the the Subconscious in Yesod. What does the Emperor desire? Governance and good order. Where better to impose that than at a level below (normal) conscious access? How does he do that? Notice that the Emperor is turned away from the light. Notice also that he appears to be meditating. Finally, the light strikes his left (Lunar = Yesod) side.
Dan
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93 Tarot,
"Just some thoughts, not meant to be conclusive or definitive. The light is not from the fiery Sephira Chokmah at the top of the pillar of force, but from the fiery Sephira Netzach at the base of that pillar. This path imprints Desire (Netzach) onto the the Subconscious in Yesod. What does the Emperor desire? Governance and good order. Where better to impose that than at a level below (normal) conscious access? How does he do that? Notice that the Emperor is turned away from the light. Notice also that he appears to be meditating. Finally, the light strikes his left (Lunar = Yesod) side. "
AHA
Thank you for the insight Tarot, the Tzaddi/Heh switch just became crystal clear. 
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Somehow I thought of the Knight of Swords when I saw this sigil:
http://www.dreamlandgrid.com/images/knoght-swords.jpg
Interestingly, the sigil seems to be fractally generated like other Things We (Us) have seen.
The 'hat' that he wears is a compass with the four directions manifesting in gold letters.
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Gayatri yantra, Rajastan, XVIII century, gouache.
Found in Lithuanian translation: Upanišados - Audrius Beinorius, 2006
Translation source: Sri Sankaracaryagranthavali. Prathamo Bhagah: Isadidasopanisadah Sankarabhasyayuktah, ed. Sri Govinda Sastri (Dilli: Motilal Banarsidass, 1992)An inverted pentagram in a hexagram. What's that?
P.S. Maybe this should be a new topic? -
@Modes said
"Gayatri yantra, Rajastan, XVIII century, gouache.
Found in Lithuanian translation: Upanišados - Audrius Beinorius, 2006
Translation source: Sri Sankaracaryagranthavali. Prathamo Bhagah: Isadidasopanisadah Sankarabhasyayuktah, ed. Sri Govinda Sastri (Dilli: Motilal Banarsidass, 1992)An inverted pentagram in a hexagram. What's that?
P.S. Maybe this should be a new topic?"Just to clarify since there are a couple different Atu discussed on this thread, which one do you mean?
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@Modes said
"I mean the card with the hexagram and the inverted pentagram. Almost all say it should not be inverted."
Atu V has such a symbol. Harris describes it as:
"The pentagram with a point upwards and the dancing child shows that he has the heart of a child; in the reversed pentagram the meaning seems to suggest he has dominion through will; the final pentagram again points upwards, showing the acceptance of a governing cosmic law."
The confusing part is that the outermost symbol looks like a hexagram, but is actually a pentagram except the 2 lower points of the star never meet in the card, so it may look like a hexagram at first glance.
FYI the child in the small pentagram has a blue symbol on his left foot. Looks like it could be a cross or an Ankh if it is somehow worn on his ankle. The woman who I think is Venus with the sword, in her chest appear to be a few stacked disks or platters in 3D.
The following is not my own observation but interesting to add to the list:
"Three pentagrams, 15 points in all. 15 is the Devil of Tarot who is closely linked with the Thoth Hierophant - see Eliphas Levi's depiction of Baphomet. 15 is also related to Liber XV The Gnostic Mass. Crowley's main exoteric religious rite designed to replace the Catholic Mass. 15 = 6 (1+5) to form the hexagram and equal the numeration of the letter Vau which is attributed to this card.
The pentagram has 5 points . Three of them 5-5-5. In Roman numerals V V V. Then into Hebrew Vau Vau Vau = 666."Theres lots of other stuff in this card, it is full of symbolism. I bet there are some cool spells/formulae in there too. I am starting to see that some of these are alchemical in nature and may span multiple cards based on such correspondences.
