The Kundrie
-
@phoinix93 said
"Is there a definitive way of identifying this particular class of being?"
Y'know, I don't think it's that there is a particular class of being. It's more a matter of what is the nature of the magician / aspirant than the nature of what distracts him.
The real issue is pretty simple: Does so and so lure me to leave the Path and turn my attention to "the little woman" (of whatever gender)? It's really about one's willingness to be derailed. I understand some may wish to blame their own weakness on a particular Jezebel, but the weakness is really their own.
"I do not have the grade to be entitled to this 'De Nuptiis Secretis, Deorum cum Hominibus' but can this 'Marriage with the Goddess' be expounded on without interfering with any Oaths?"
The formal technique under that name is part of a degree-confidential O.T.O. paper. My own oaths, therefore, would keep me from saying much.
-
"The formal technique under that name is part of a degree-confidential O.T.O. paper. My own oaths, therefore, would keep me from saying much."
Understood Jim.
Let me ask this, it is said that in the Neophyte grade one should never forget that Malkuth is intimately connected with Binah.
That there is 'special attention' one should pay to the Supernal Mother. Can you comment on this? -
This is an interesting question.
Relationships with Kundrie/Lilith types are based on anima/animus attractions and as such projection is involved in these relationships. One becomes easily confused as to whether a relationship with a Kundrie/Lilith is, in fact, in alignment with one’s Path or whether that person is a psychic vampire distracting the neophyte from his/her True Will. The problem is compounded by the fact these attractions reach down to emotional “soul” levels and this can sure feel like one’s True Will.
It takes an exceptionally strong person to be with these types. Then the questions come: 1) was this Kundrie/Lilith sent into your life to purify and make you stronger as a person or is she a vampire feeding off your energies? 2) Is a relationship with her in alignment with your Path or a distraction from it? 3) does she point toward the City of Pyramids or is she a materialist who cares nothing of spirituality?
-
@phoinix93 said
"Let me ask this, it is said that in the Neophyte grade one should never forget that Malkuth is intimately connected with Binah.
That there is 'special attention' one should pay to the Supernal Mother. "Difficult question to answer yes-no, since either could be misleading.
Yes, inherent in the grade of Malkuth is (and needs to be) an awareness that there is something outside the realm of the physical senses. Focus on the Supernals in general is more than a little helpful IMHO. That's all part of the trip.
OTOH it isn't exactly an assigned task. Some eventual Kether recognition - the fulfuillment of the 1=10 formula, the understanding that Malkuth is in Kether and Kether is in Malkuth (but after another manner) - is more core. The only quote from Crowley or official documents I can think of at the moment that is relevant to either Supernal idea is: "The duties of a Neophyte are in Malkuth, in which is Kether. Therefore he still tries many paths, yet always with the idea of the One Path." One might also over-interpret "the U-word" in the line from Liber 185, "He shall apply himself to understand the nature of his Initiation.."
An area where people get themselves in trouble with this is the common pitfall of being overly excited about crossing the Abyss. Ironically, this is especially a vulnerability in the most successful of Neophytes, those who are actually almost ready to pass into the next stage. Within each Sephirah is its own Tree of 10 sub-Sephiroth, and most of us are mindful of passing through these. Many times I've seen someone near the end of their 1=10 work hit the "Binah of Malkuth" phase and think (or at least be tempted to think) that they have crossed the Abyss. In fact, they are simply perfecting the last (and often best) bits of their Malkuth experience. So, there's an added vulnerability.
There are very deep relationships between Malkuth and Binah. Each is the letter Heh. Each is a natural place of expression of the Shekinah. Ultimately, the mother is the daughter, and the legend says that the daughter will be placed on the throne of the mother, the princess growing up to be the new queen who is the eternal queen. But far too many people (especially those working solitary, without someone to bust them on this sort of thing) put this all in the wrong perspective and start getting obsessed about crossing the Abyss.
As I said, the question doesn't yield to an easy yes-no.
-
@h2h said
"does she point toward the City of Pyramids or is she a materialist who cares nothing of spirituality?"
I actually don't think this matters much at all. I think the real question is whether you, as a result of relationship or interaction with her, are pointed more toward your aspirations or away from them.
I keep hammering this point because it is taking "the easy out" to blame the other person. That's already losing the game.
-
A lot of good pointers here Jim, thank you.
"An area where people get themselves in trouble with this is the common pitfall of being overly excited about crossing the Abyss."
This is putting the cart way in front of the horse! I admit Liber 418 is one of the most intriguing books I have ever read but there are more immediate matters at hand.
"Within each Sephirah is its own Tree of 10 sub-Sephiroth, and most of us are mindful of passing through these."
This is a concept that tends to slip my mind a lot. Is working through the sub-sephiroth the prescribed way of attacking each grade?
"There are very deep relationships between Malkuth and Binah. Each is the letter Heh. Each is a natural place of expression of the Shekinah. "
This was the basis for my original post. The kundrie comes into the picture when the Supernal Mother 'feels' scorned (for lack of a better term) and the energy coming form her (toward the person who offended her) manifests in the form of a Kundrie.
Now what would cause her to 'feel scorned'? -
@phoinix93 said
"
"Within each Sephirah is its own Tree of 10 sub-Sephiroth, and most of us are mindful of passing through these."This is a concept that tends to slip my mind a lot. Is working through the sub-sephiroth the prescribed way of attacking each grade?"
I wouldn't suggest setting out to do it that way. It makes it too complicated and forced. But I do recommend observing it and, especially, when you suddenly find yourself seeming to have been catapaulted up the Tree to some fast and inflated grade, start by suspecting that you slipped a tiny increment on the sub-Tree of your current grade.
"This was the basis for my original post. The kundrie comes into the picture when the Supernal Mother 'feels' scorned (for lack of a better term) and the energy coming form her (toward the person who offended her) manifests in the form of a Kundrie."
You're still putting the emphasis on the movie screen, not on the film or the projector. The Kundry-like phenomena come into play when the Neophyte experiences the dramatic surge of energy released by the 1=10 process (the A.'.A.'. Neophyte grade is the volatilization of the fixed stage of alchemy - evident in many ways) and his or her uncontrolled Nephesh bounds out of control.
-
@phoinix93 said
" It seems that many,if not all people have these characteristics being we are all in Malkuth. "
No no no! We are not in Malkuth. We are not even in the Malkuth of Assiah.
The cabalistic sages made it abundantly clear that Malkuth, like the other 9 sephiroth, are supernal spheres. The diagram of Adam Kadmon shows how we as individuals interrelate with all 10.
The pre-Zohar cabala, which often used the language of the earlier Heikhalot/Merkaba mysticism, made this clear, and in the earlier form you always descended to what we now call Malkuth before doing anything else.
I have seen Order after Order publish or perform rituals where the temple/lodge is opened in Malkuth as if we were already there and then begin ascending.
IMHO this is the reason so many magicians are ungrounded - we need to attain Malkuth, not just assume it.
-
I get it Jim. A kundie is only such if you let them be one. Thus showing your own weakness and unreadiness to pursue the path.
93 Sethur
@sethur said
"No no no! We are not in Malkuth. We are not even in the Malkuth of Assiah."
Where do we stand then? Are we in the qliphotic tree under Assiah?
"and in the earlier form you always descended to what we now call Malkuth before doing anything else.
"This is confusing. If we have to descend to Malkuth before continuing would imply that we were above Malkuth and that it had already been attained!?! Could you clarify this?
-
@phoinix93 said
"I get it Jim. A kundie is only such if you let them be one. Thus showing your own weakness and unreadiness to pursue the path."
I agree with that all the way up to the last phrase. I disagree that one is unready to pursue the Path - rather, one's weakness shows what one must overcome as one's next step in pursuing the Path that one obviously is already on if a 1=10 encountering this distinctive ordeal of that grade.